Wanna' read along? Here’s a machine-generated transcript you can use. Yes...expect a few mistakes, especially with funky industry terms, interesting names and tagging whoever's talking. If something sounds weird, trust your ears. But...sometimes that really is what we said!
Announcer: Welcome to producing unscripted. What joke? And Biagio.
Angry Man: Is this some kind of joke?
Confused Woman: Biagio-WHO???
Biagio: Is in this episode? It’s episode 110.
Unidentified Voice: Oh oh. So.
Biagio: We’re talking all about paranormal shows. We’ll look at some of the most popular paranormal shows on the air. What needs to happen to make your paranormal pitch stand out, how to break the mold and make some magic in the genre. Plus look out! I’m feeling especially punny today. Man, I am just rolling today. Music courtesy Dave Pelman. Music Dave Pelman.com. Hey everybody. She’s joke. He’s Biagio. We’re married. We make unscripted film and television and want to help you do the same.
Joke: Hopefully by teaming up with us.
Biagio: Well, hello. And Halloween is here.
Joke: I have a spooky voice to go with it.
Biagio: She sure does. More on that in a minute. But I want to tell you, for episode 110, we’ve put together something spooky pitching paranormal shows. So before we get to that a little bit, what we’ve been up to and why joke. Sounds like she’s got no voice.
Joke: I’ve been doing a lot of talking recently, but really, it’s probably just children passing me a cold. But yeah, I just came back from two weeks of production where we were shooting more interviews for the Unmasking a Killer episode six conclusion to the Golden State Killer series.
Biagio: Yeah, I’ve been back here in post seeing the footage. It is fascinating. I’m really excited. If any of you who watched Unmasking a Killer, you’re going to love episode six because the killer actually gets unmasked. So fairly fantastic. Speaking of unmasking, did I say it’s Halloween?
Joke: Oh, nice. Clever.
Biagio: Did you see that? Did you see that?
Joke: I did see that.
Biagio: Yeah. I’m hilarious. Well, we wanted to talk about today is a genus of television. We get pitched a lot, and that’s paranormal now. There’s a lot of things we want to talk about today and a lot of information we we have for you that will help you whether you’re pitching paranormal or any other genres. But there’s some specific things to paranormal you really need to know about. And that’s what we’re going to give you today. Now, what is paranormal TV? Well, according to Wikipedia, factual investigations of paranormal phenomena aka ghosts, mediums, psychics, mysterious or unexplained events, UFOs, Bigfoot, Loch Ness monster, blah blah blah. You get it? That’s paranormal. It’s it’s one of these that has been very popular over the years.
Joke: You forgot crop circles.
Biagio: Crop circle. How did I forget crop circles? I’m from Ohio. I should know crop circles.
Joke: Circles are awesome.
Biagio: Oh my goodness. Now, over the years, some notable paranormal shows you’ve probably seen at some point are Ghost Hunters, which is probably the most successful paranormal show of all time that’s been on for like 16 seasons Haunting, The Dead Files, Paranormal Witness, Long Island, Medium, of course, which ran for ten seasons. Hollywood Medium with Tyler Henry, which is really popular right now on and in Our Own Goes Inside My Child, which we did for bio and LM, I’m proud to say was the highest rated television episode in Bio channel history. Thank you.
Joke: It’s a low bar.
Biagio: It was a bar, wasn’t very high, but well, hey, we’re there number one. So all that said, here’s a very important point. And I don’t want this to put a damper on the episode. And I’ll tell you why in a second. But at this exact moment, I actually talked to our agent and nobody is actively seeking paranormal. I will say this about the John. It is cyclical, much like true crime. As a matter of fact, some people would even say true crime has sort of replaced paranormal in this cycle. That doesn’t mean paranormal won’t come back tomorrow. The is always come back. At some point paranormal will be big again and people will be begging for paranormal pitches the same way they’re begging for true crime pitches, I think. What do you think, Joe? Am I right?
Joke: Yeah. I mean, it’s just going to take a great paranormal pitch right now to to break through that hesitation by the network executives. But someone really believes in a project. They put it on and then performs well. Then all of a sudden everybody’s going to want more paranormal. So it’s not that they’re not hearing paranormal pitches, they’re just not really looking for paranormal pitches. So it’s a bigger mountain to climb.
Biagio: It’s a bigger mountain to climb. But you know, no network is going to turn away an incredible television show. That shot comes down to if it’s incredible, they’re going to consider it. So today we’re going to tell you the ingredients in the witch’s brew. That makes a great paranormal pitch. Man, I am just rolling today. All right. So let’s start with we’ve got four tips we’re going to share with you. Let’s start with tip number one. Like any other genres, you have to have incredible characters because good is not good enough anymore right.
Joke: Yeah. The bar has been set so high and, you know, fair not fair. You’re being compared to the stars in the jar. So if you want to be another Long Island medium or a Tyler Henry, you have to be as unique and as good as those characters. I would also say, by the way, that network executives will require any piece of talent to, quote unquote, show their goods, because the jar has a lot of skeptics. They want to make sure that they’re not going to put a character on the air that turns out to be a fraud, or that doesn’t really deliver when it counts. So I know when we’ve gone in with paranormal pitches based on talent first and foremost, rather than format, that talent has had to perform in the room. So if that’s a psychic, they have to do a reading and they better come up with stuff you can’t find on Google.
Biagio: Yeah, exactly. And I mean, the thing is, you got to have that A+ talent. Like I said, good isn’t good enough, interesting isn’t interesting enough anymore. What worked five, ten years ago, even a couple of years ago, the bar has been raised. Now, the only thing that might let you get away with a pretty good piece of talent, and they would have to be pretty good, is if their resume is incredible. They have some crazy, proven track record of being the absolute best at what they’re doing, but even then, pretty good talent as opposed to excellent talent might get passed on. Correct. All right. So moving on to tip number two, your first and second hooks. Now we’ve talked about these a lot right. First and second hooks are part and parcel to any good pitch. For those who don’t remember about the second hooks, I would put a link in the show notes to our podcast episode about second hooks. It’s one of the most important things in any pitch, especially in paranormal. Now on Hollywood Medium. Let’s take a look at that for a second. You know, the first hook is that he’s a young medium. This is a genre typically known for much older people. He instantly made him different. And the second hook is that he again supposedly goes in blind to his celebrity appointments, meaning he doesn’t know who he’s meeting with at any given day. So that second hook not only supports the paranormal aspect of the show, but it also raises the stakes because he’s walking in supposedly not knowing anything.
Joke: Yeah, I mean, it’s you know, the first hook is he doesn’t look anything like psychic you’ve ever seen before. And a second hook is it’s celebrities. It’s celebrity reading. So, you know, you have to be able to book these celebrities. And the way that they were able to do this is Tyler Henry had a bit of a track record and had a little bit of a following already in Hollywood. So, you know, obviously in success you can get more and more of those, but that’s also what made it right for the each other.
Biagio: On Ghost Inside My Child or first hook was that all across the world, parents had kids who remembered dying in a past life, which, by the way, was something that shocked us. It was pitched to us by an Emmy Award winning journalist. We couldn’t believe it that people felt that they were going through this, whether it was real or not, that they felt this was what they were dealing with. So that was the first hook. But the second hook of this show, what made it a show was that now these families were undertaking a journey to try and bring some peace to these children. They were actively facing the problem and saying, how do we fix this? So it wasn’t just telling stories of kids who had these memories, it was following the parents trying to fix it. So whether or not you believed in past lives or not, you did believe these kids were going through something real. And these parents were like, oh my God, how do I help my kid? And that was really the heart of that show.
Joke: I think it’s important when we talk about first and second hooks, to understand that a first and second hook is does not mean combining. And the reason I bring this up is the low files, which was on A and E. It was a paranormal show of Rob Lowe and his two sons going to explore paranormal activity or paranormal sightings and and that kind of stuff, which they are genuinely, authentically, as a family kind of obsessed with. When I saw it, the trailer in the first episode, I was like, oh, okay. Like, wow, how great that you couldn’t do this with Rob Lowe. And you have the celebrity attached to this. Unfortunately, what the network found out is it didn’t rate that well. And the reason that they’ve figured out is it was a celebrity docu series, right. You’re following a celebrity sons and how they interact with each other, and they’re great characters and they’re funny and they have a great dynamic. But then it was also paranormal. And those are two actual different genres with two different audiences. So the celebrity docu audience wasn’t that interested in paranormal, and the hardcore paranormal audience could care less who’s taking them to these paranormal sightings or activities or places. They just want to focus on the paranormal. And the celebrity was distracting. So I think it was an important lesson for all of us that first in the second hook are important, but it doesn’t mean that those things can be two different genres because the paranormal audience is a very specific audience. They’re very I don’t say fickle, but they’re very educated as to these haunted houses and these things, so they don’t really seem to enjoy people going there just because they’re celebrities or because they’re fun or whatever. It has to feel real and authentic. And again, they care not so much about the celebrity component of the host as they do about, you know, really learning and experiencing that paranormal activity.
Biagio: Yeah. And that said, again, interesting, interesting way to look at it. Like joke pointed out, low files sort of feels like a celebrity docu soap first. But there have been celebrity ghost story shows that have done very, very well. Those were formats where it was about the ghosts. It didn’t matter who the celebrity was, you know? And I think that that’s a real interesting thing to look at is see that these formats of celebrities have been successful. And yet these docu soaps, I mean, this one wasn’t.
Joke: Yeah. I think, you know, Tyler Henry is a psychic, just like Long Island medium, except in Long Island medium. She’s doing readings on everyday people. And Tyler Henry’s doing readings on celebrities. Right. So that’s different than a celebrity docu series going to explore paranormal stuff. Just because there’s a celebrity in the show does not mean it’s the same show. The celebrities serve different functions in Celebrity Ghost Story or Tyler Henry Show than they do with Rob Lowe in The Low Files.
Biagio: All right, moving on to tip number three. Listen, this might sound obvious, but you got to be pitching something new. Okay? We get pitched ghost Hunter shows every single month. And the fact of the matter is, a straight up ghost hunting show is going to be a very difficult sell. I mean, there’s already a show called Ghost Hunters, which is one of the most popular shows of all time. So you’re up against that bar if you’re going to try and sell a ghost hunter show. So what would what would allow you to sell a Gus Hunter show? Well, having something that’s truly new or that you can say is truly new. Like, is there some crazy brand new technology invented this year that proves ghosts exist? Well, that would be something, you know, or a brand new way to hunt ghosts that no one has ever heard of and looks completely different than what they do on Ghost Hunters. And of course, the ghost hunters themselves would have to be fantastic and A+ on camera. So you need that great talent and you need something that’s new, you know, on the medium front, which is the second most popular we pitched, we get pitched a lot of psychic mediums. It’s not enough to just be a medium or psychic. There needs to be something new. And most importantly, bramble. You know, if you look at Long Island medium and Hollywood medium, the location plays a big role in that, you know, do they have a extremely unique approach that nobody else has? What’s their backstory? How did they, you know, how did they grow up dealing with their psychic abilities? And does that affect their life right now? So there has to be something wildly different and fresh from every other psychic show on television now. Other paranormal was include UFO, sort of the conspiracy genre can sort of fall under paranormal depending on what stories are telling, historical mystery like artifacts, museums, etc. that supposedly have haunted elements to them. Now, if you’re looking into any of these, everything we’ve said so far comes into play. It’s got to be something new. You’ve got to have incredible talent.
Joke: I would just want to add that this something new. I just want to acknowledge it, that that’s the hardest part. Like, yes, it’s hard if you’re sitting there going, well, how am I going to reinvent the wheel? This is so hard. Yep. It’s hard because if it wasn’t hard, we’d all have like ten psychic shows on television. It is the hard part, I think when we say, you know, how do you crack a or how do you crack a show? That’s the part that really comes into play. It’s like, okay, I have this great piece of talent, but they’re just like Long Island Medium. I have incredible access. But it’s like, okay, how do I make it new? You know, because they’re not just going to put on another Tyler Henry like, you know, you’re not just going to get another young kid who talks to celebrities. So you have to figure out, you know, define a great piece of talent. And then maybe it’s in the format or maybe it’s where they’re from, like, how can you pitch the show where it feels new?
Biagio: Yes. Hardest part. Totally agreed. We’ve been out with several, you know, paranormal pitches since we did Ghost Inside My Child. And the fact of the matter is, Ghost Inside my child had the most extremely crazy hook, and that was a much easier sell than a more a more standard psychic show. All right. So moving on to tip number four. Your project has to work for a network’s audience. That goes for any genre, but especially paranormal. Since you’re already climbing over that paranormal hill right now, like it has to line up exactly with what a network is looking for. That means you’re on camera talent, the pacing of your show, and the targeted demo line up exactly with what a network wants. Basically, your people need to seem like they could fit in with the other people that are on a network’s air. So right now, if you look at networks that are airing paranormal and you kind of look at their demos, you know, you got Travel Channel, which is skews barely male according to the internet, about 5248, a discovery which skews more male. It’s 6238 Sci-Fi, which is sort of male at 5644 lifetime, which skews very female at 75.5% versus 24.5%. TLC, which skews female at 6832 and which skews female at 6931. Other places have dabbled in paranormal places like A&E, for instance. But what it comes down to is will your show work inside one of these demos? If you have a very male driven show, you’re not going to sell it to lifetime, right?
Joke: I think if you look at the at the kind of paranormal shows that are airing on travel, discovery and Sci-Fi, which have a tendency to be more like the Ghost Hunters type of show versus the TLC lifetime shows, which have a tendency to be more like readings, which are more emotional, and people crying versus people like running scared from ghosts. I think that kind of tells you like, okay, if I’m doing more of a of a psychic show, maybe, maybe going more female makes sense. Or if you’re dealing with ghost hunters, it’s like, okay, coming up with an all female ghost hunter show might be difficult.
Biagio: For various reasons. Again, you just have to think about, you know, what is is there something work just right for a particular network? And if it does, you have a much better chance. Now, how do you know what’s right for networks? All right. This is a bonus tip, people. I think I’ve talked about this before in the podcast, but this is like my my top number one secret. Here’s how you know. Of course you watch TV. You know, we talked about that in our very first episode. But the most important, I think you have to visit the network’s website because you’re going to notice they promote certain shows on the front page of their site that tells you what’s working for them. So if you click on a dropdown, it says all shows. You’re going to see every show they’ve ever done. And you might think, oh, they did a show like mine, you know, but it was seven years ago. And that reality, they would never do a show like that again for whatever reason. So the way to really sort of t in on what any network is doing at a particular time is what’s on that front page of their website, what are they pushing in your face? And then if you click on the all shows, you can get a sense of probably what’s not working for them anymore. So that’s that’s I think, a great tip you can steal. I hope you do. Every single time we do a pitch, the first thing I do is go to a network’s website and figure out what’s working for them. Basically, if they’re not promoting a show right up front on their site, it’s a good bet that the show no longer lines up with what they’re asking for. Whew. That was our four tips, honey.
Joke: That was four and a half.
Biagio: Four. It really was four and a half tips. It was sort of like a bonus. Wait.
Joke: There was more.
Biagio: But wait, there’s more. So just to recap, you know, right now, paranormal isn’t the hottest genre, but that is cyclical. It may blow up tomorrow. It will definitely come back around, I guarantee you. Now you have to have your first and second hooks nailed down that will make your paranormal pitch stand out from the hundreds that don’t. Your talent has to be A+. Incredible. Awesome. Good is not good enough. Interesting is not interesting enough. They have to be amazing and there has to be a network your show is right for. Otherwise. The truth is, if it doesn’t line up with those things, you can. You probably should think about doing a web series. And by the way, there’s no shame in that. It’s not a bad thing. Just ask our friends Rhett and Link, who we did commercial Kings with, or Rosanna Zino, who we did Scream Queens with. They were both on television, only to find way huger success on YouTube. Astronomically more, right? Oh yeah.
Joke: I wish I had taken their career path.
Biagio: They are. They’re doing very, very well. So don’t Pooh Pooh. You know, the whole YouTube. We don’t we don’t really do YouTube series. It’s not our thing. We do have a YouTube channel. We occasionally post stuff that’s not really our area. But I will say that if you have a show that’s not right for a network, there’s never been a better time than the try and build an audience, you know, on on YouTube. And I think that goes double for paranormal. So that’s it. We’re going to be back next month with what will probably be our Thanksgiving episode. If I, if I had a guess, if I had a predict.
Joke: It’s easy to theme them last three months of the year.
Biagio: It really what I wonder what we’ll do for December. I have no idea. There’s nothing going on in this other. Yeah, I don’t know. I guess we’ll have to come up with something. Anyways, as always, thank you for listening. For those of you that might be interested in potentially teaming up with us, you can learn how to pitch us shows by going to producing unscripted. Com and clicking on the pitch us a show in the menu bar. It’s pretty easy to get to that. I’ll tell you everything you ever want to know about working with us. You can also look at the Success Stories page I’m producing unscripted to hear about other other aspiring producers we’ve teamed up with and why their shows made it to air. So I think that’s something you should look into if this is an area you want to break into. However, even if you never pitch anything to us, we wish you tons of success in your career. And as always, thanks for listening.
Joke: Thank you so much. Talk soon.
Biagio: Bye bye. Producing unscripted.
Unidentified Voice: With Joe can be you.
