Step By Step: TV Idea to TV Show

Announcer: Welcome to Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.

Angry Man: Is this some kind of joke?

Confused Woman: Biagio-WHO???

Announcer: This episode…

Biagio: It’s episode twenty-nine and we’ve teamed up with two more review to get a show in development at a major network. How you can take the same steps to team up with us, using Skype to inexpensively develop your show ideas. How do you know if someone is great reality TV talent? How many hours of footage do you really have to shoot to end up with a five-minute pitch tape? A lot!

Announcer: Music courtesy of Dave Pelman Music, davepelman.com

Biagio: Hey everybody! She’s Joke.

Joke: He’s Biagio.

Biagio: We’re married. We make unscripted film and television and want to help you do the same, hopefully by teaming up with us.

Speaking of teaming up with us, we’re here today with two fantastic hands-on producers who, much like you, knew about us through the podcast and through working out here in the industry, pitched us something that was just recently announced in The Hollywood Reporter, Deadline Hollywood, The Wrap. It’s pretty much all over the place. That is Joey Gemelli and Natalie Terrell. Welcome, guys! Congratulations!

Joey: Thank you!

Natalie: Thank you!

Joey: Thanks for having us!

Biagio: Absolutely! I’m so excited about this because it’s very rare that when you’re in the development stage of the show you get to talk about it. The networks, they’re very careful about what they announce when. We’re in a really unique position in that Oxygen has came out and announced that we are now in a development deal tentatively titled Sister Witches.

I can’t say more about it than what’s in the press release itself, so I’m just going to read straight from the press release.

Sister Witches – set in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. Sister Witches follows the lives of three unique sisters facing their twenties head-on as they learn to harness their powers as witches and find their own way. Along with their larger than life mother, the sisters run the family business, a witchcraft and magic shop where they help clients solve every day problems including career, love and health using secret spells, ancient rituals and magical potions. Even though they are invested in the shop, they struggle to balance their mainstream lives. Megan, twenty-four, is an occupational therapist in a trauma centre. Sammy, twenty-two, runs a successful jewellery line. And Jill, twenty, is in college. Confronting adulthood is not easy even if you’re a witch and these young women are on a journey of self-discovery with the self of their sisters and some magic.

Heck, I’d watch that show!

Joey: Hell, yeah!

Biagio: Let’s back up a little bit. I think that you guys are the poster children for what someone should do when they find a great cast. I want you to talk a little bit about your initial steps. You met one of the sisters. How did you take it from there?

Natalie: Basically, we’re both casting directors so being in the industry we’ve met tons and tons of amazing characters. We had a fabulous talent named Sammy Ryan and we decided to explore a little deeper with her. We knew she had an amazing mother who is a witch and her sisters had talents and they were witches as well. We thought that would be an amazing idea for a show.

On our time off we decided to Skype them since they live in Pennsylvania. We weren’t going to fly out there so we Skyped them. They were amazing talents and they took it away from there. Joey here put it together because he has fabulous editing skills.

Joey: Yeah. There was quite a few rounds of Skyping because it really took us time to kind of wrap our brain around what they did. At first it was obvious. We’ve seen it in Practical Magic and Charmed. It’s something that’s never been done in the reality space. We knew there was something there. We knew we had the personalities. We just had to kind of get to know them. We put together a Skype – it was probably a little bit too long.

Biagio: It was a tiny bit long, a tiny bit.

Joey: We wanted to cover everything in there. We knew that we were just trying to take someone to go in on this with us. You guys were – I think – the first people that we took it to. We did take it to several others. It was a learning experience.

Joke: Let’s back it up a little bit before we get to that part. Because of what you guys do as casting directors, how do you know if someone is a good talent? What do you really look for? When do you know like, “Oh, there’s something here. This is worth my time.”

Joey: Number on, it’s TV. It’s a look, do you know what I mean? People don’t want to watch a sea monster for five seasons.

Biagio: Depending on the network.

Joey: Yeah, depending on the network. The girls had a great look which we knew.

Natalie: They had a fascinating lifestyle.

Joey: Yeah.

Natalie: You say ‘witch’ and you’re automatically hooked. Tell me more – what do you do? Do you do potions? Tell me about your magic. Not every day do you meet a witch and a witch who’s fabulous and beautiful and has a personality and has an amazing family at home that are running this cool business.

Joey: They’re funny and they’re real.

Natalie: They’re real and relatable.

Joey: They’re real, they’re relatable. I have friends that will send me sometimes things that are just so over the top that I can’t relate to it, do you know what I mean? When you have those type of characters you have to kind of rein them in and make them relatable. They were just super, super fun.

Joke: I also want to bring attention to the fact that you guys just Skyped them and from Skyping with them you knew there was something there. I want to get into that portion. We – a lot of times – talk about, “We can just Skype with someone and you’ll know” and sometimes feel like the quality is not that great or if we don’t like them it’s because it was a Skype.

Talk about how you have to be able to see through the technical aspect of the Skype and really get to the character.

Biagio: Before you do, for those of you listening – I hope this isn’t the case, but if you don’t know what Skype is (S-K-Y-P-E), it’s a free piece of software that lets you talk to people over the internet, video-chat with them. What Joey and Natalie did was they used Skype and they essentially recorded that Skype interview.

Joey: Skype recorded is a secondary plug-in you need to download if you want to do that.

Natalie: Yeah.

Joey: Yeah. There are a lot of things once we get in there that can make the Skype – not to go off on a technical tangent – you can actually get a pretty decent quality Skype, especially with younger people that have really good Mac and have a good internet connection which these days they do.

I think the most important thing is what’s happening in front of the camera, not the camera that it’s shot on, you know what I mean? If it’s gold, it’s gold.

Biagio: I will one hundred per cent back you on that. If they don’t pop on Skype, they’re not going to pop when you put a ten-thousand-dollar camera on their face.

Natalie: Exactly.

Biagio: Great personality – you can’t turn them off. You put them down in front of a Skype and it’s boring, they’re going to be boring. That’s just the way it is.

Natalie: You know in the first five seconds if someone is good. You just do.

Joke: That comes partly because of your experience at this point.

Natalie: Right.

Joke: There are so many people.

Joey: So many!

Biagio: But I want to stress – you guys have had time in casting but people like you who want to break into producing can use this technology as a way to save money, to put good people on camera and figure out if they think they’re good.

Joke: There’s another big thing you said I think is really important. You knew you had personalities but you said it took several Skypes to really even know what the show was.

Joey: Totally.

Joke: Talk about how that’s different. A lot of times people are just like, “That’s a great character” but what’s the show?

Joey: All the time. That’s the number one thing that we see especially with a lot of my colleagues that have these ideas. What am I seeing every week? The thing with them was that we saw a couple of different shows that could potentially be on a couple different networks so we knew that this was something that we could sell.

We’re even talking about really going hard on this for a long time but Natalie and I didn’t want to go on something we weren’t a hundred per cent on. We knew that the time was right for this also just watching the trends and pop culture and what’s been in other outlets. We just thought the time was right.

Natalie: If you see it popping up in social media or in the press or with celebrities, you know you have something. You need to follow that trend and find good characters that you can wrap around it.

Joke: How long did you know Sammy before you guys ended up coming out with this casting Skype that you showed us and some other people?

Natalie: She was in my files for over a year and a half. When we have great talent, we keep going back to them because you never know what could come of it. That’s why people who go through the casting process never give up because you could have your own show. Let people know – “I have a fabulous, interesting life. I have a dynamic mother. I have an interesting business.” That’s what’s all the show.

Joke: Sammy lucked out by finding you guys who were spending the time and energy to keep looking for different avenues. What could be the point of view to show? Is this the show? Is that a show? You have great characters, but you need a framing to them that helps you understand what the stories are going to be each week, what you’re going to see, was there a story of the week, is there going to be an evolution and all of that stuff. That’s what you guys did really well.

I do remember seeing the casting tape and I think our very first conversation was, ‘Jeez, there are so many shows here. Which one do you actually want to make?’

Natalie: Yeah!

Joey: Yeah!

Joke: Which one do you think it would be the easiest to make?

Joey: It’s exciting to start there because there are so many out there. I get so many ideas brought to me and so frequently my thing is, “We can only put this here if they want this one show.” We’ve been doing this for a year now. Even when we were doing the initial Skype phase, I was shooting another pilot with you guys. I was up in my hotel room until three in the morning for six days straight just cutting this. You guys didn’t even know.

Joke: It does explain why you came with like, three cups of coffee.

Joey: Yeah!

Biagio: Man, Joe’s having more coffee!

Joke: I was like, ‘Man, we’re really running him rugged on this show!’

Joey: Then we finished and it was like, “Surprise! Here it is!”

Natalie: Have a treat.

Joey: It was worth it for us because we knew that we could run this around town until we were exhausted with it. Even if that didn’t work we could go back and re-structure it.

Joke: Now let’s talk real quick about you taking it around town. You took it to us because Joey had been working with us on a different show that ended up not going.

Biagio: That said, as those of you listening know, they could have also brought it to us through the podcast.

Joke: Right.

Biagio: Just because they’re out here doesn’t necessarily mean it’s easier for them. I do want to stress that.

Joke: You guys have tape. If you’re in wherever and you can send the tape. We judge the show based on the tape, obviously.

Part of taking it out, and I think what was so great about it is that you guys put thought into it. You clearly found great characters but then really put thought into the show. Regardless or not you were going to sell it, it was a good calling card, obviously. What was part of the going around and meeting people? What was that process like?

Joey: It was exciting at first, then completely overwhelming. Honestly, I think with this one everyone completely agreed with us and everyone that we talked to wanted to put an offer for it. It’s hard. Once you start those conversations, it’s like getting a divorce, you know what I mean? So much of it comes down to what the deal is. For us it was important to have a really good experience that’s why we wanted to do this with you guys because there really are no two better people to be learning from in the business, seriously. It was rough.

Looking back now that I know the process, I’d be more selective. I would take it to less people.

Natalie: Don’t over-pitch because I think that was the problem. At the end of the day we ended up letting down three other companies. You don’t know if you’re going to burn a bridge or you can’t take something back. If you know there’s interest, I wouldn’t take it down to ten different companies. Go to your top three. Whoever you feel is your best bet for the show for you, you go with.

Joey: For some people it might be all about the money. There are a lot of people that are like, “I just want to sell the show. Write me a check and then I want nothing to do with it.” That’s not Natalie and I’s M.O.

Biagio: No, that’s why we love you guys. To be completely honest, especially with the way that we work, we want to work with people who actually want to make TV with us. We want to make TV together.

I remember when we were exactly where you guys are and we were pitching shows to companies. Our biggest fear – I don’t know if you guys felt the same way – our fear was that we were going to make a deal and then they were just going to cut us out of the process.

Natalie: Yes. That’s everyone’s fear in the industry because it happens.

Biagio: Once you guys had a go with this, how was the process for you? Did you feel like you got cut out of the process or did you feel like you’re a big part?

Joke: Now you’re just looking for compliments.

Biagio: I absolutely am!

Joey: I had done it with you guys. The way that you guys are so involved and everything – I’ve never worked with people like you that are so hands-on and out there in the trenches with us.

Natalie: Totally.

Joey: Had we gone anywhere else, we probably wouldn’t have someone in your position out there in the trenches with us completely aware of what was going on, having our backs, teaching us.

Natalie: Involving us in the whole process – notes, networks and advising us on what happens. You basically taught us while we were out there – these are the things that can happen.

Joey: You didn’t just want our show, you wanted to teach us.

Joke: For the record, we’re not saints.

Biagio: No, we’re not saints.

Joke: The reason we’re doing that is because we want you to run the show on your own.

Biagio: We know from the get-go that you guys’ aspiration is to have your own production company one day. Unlike a lot of production companies, that doesn’t scare us. That excites me. I can be like, “Yeah, we helped those guys! Now we’re fellow production companies!” That’s great. There are plenty networks. There are enough space for all of us to be successful.

What we saw in you was three things. You had the ability to listen, you had the ability to learn and the ability to execute. You did those three things. Every step along the way – you guys would admit you were a little green with, you didn’t necessarily know how it should work. But you always asked and you never asked the same question twice. You never made the same mistake twice. I felt like every step along the way you were taking everything you could out of this experience, not only to make a great show here but to prepare you for your future. I congratulate you on that and I think that everybody listening to this podcast who wants to work on this business should look at you guys as examples. It’s not necessarily about coming in and ‘It’s my company! It’s this and that.’ It’s about coming in and learning how to do it right so that it can help you down the line.

Joke: Right. Also, you guys came in with the talent. You had the relationship with the talent. As we always say, talent relationships are very, very tricky. I don’t think it behoves anybody for us to come in and muscle in on that relationship. You see a lot of other companies do it or do different things. It puts the talent in a weird position. It puts everybody in a weird position. It is what it is.

Once we teamed up, Biagio and you guys went out in the trenches and shot the sizzle. Go ahead.

Biagio: I just want to draw attention to a past podcast because this is exactly what we talked about before. Reach out to us with a tape that’s not expensive, that doesn’t cost you an arm and a leg like the Skype tape. It cost time. Time is valuable but they didn’t have to spend tons on cash on it. We liked it. We were all able to come to a deal together that we liked so me and Joke, out company Joke Productions, we funded the tape. We put in a little time and money. You guys put in your time. We flew out together. The first time around was me, Joey and Natalie and we went to Bethlehem, PA with some cameras and a lot of caffeine.

Joey: A lot of caffeine! And some Dunkin Donuts.

Biagio: What I want to talk about is what was it like? Once we made the deal, you guys had some light work you had to do before we went.

Joey: I think that’s the part where most people aren’t willing to do. I think if you’re not willing to do it then you don’t deserve the credit. Give someone your idea, hopefully make some money off of it and go do your thing and enjoy the money. But we’ve sacrificed.

Biagio: Yes, you did.

Joey: We went out there several times. I think we probably had a solid three months – at least – last year where flat out this is what we were working for and this is all pro bono.

Biagio: It’s all investing in yourself. That’s exactly how me and Joke started. It’s exactly how anybody who is successful in this business starts.

Natalie: That’s how to pursue that. The networks expect us at this stage to pretty much work pro bono. In success, we all win. At this stage, for a pilot or presentation they’re footing the bill. That’s not the time for us to make any money.

You have to deal with the cast, be willing to have a cast that understands that process, that gets that in the development process – this is all real, the selling process, in the development process – that we’re all pretty much working pro bono. We’re all pretty much just trying to get a show on the air.

Biagio: It’s like writing a spec screen play. I know a lot of people listening are writers. It’s the same basic idea. You’re spec-ing an idea. You’re saying, “I believe there’s a show here” and you’re taking it around to pitch.

Natalie: Except that when you sell the screenplay you get to walk away with the check. When we sell the show, we still have to go make it.

Biagio: Well, yeah. We need to do a whole podcast of that. There’s no such thing as actually selling a show. Everybody says, “We sold a show.” You don’t actually sell a show. You basically get commissioned to make a show and you’re lucky if maybe you didn’t spend all your money making the show better.

You guys spent a couple of weeks talking to the girls and preparing for us to go out and shoot together, right?

Joey: Yeah, absolutely.

Biagio: What were you doing during that time?

Joey: That was it.

Natalie: It was scouting locations, setting up scenes, really picking their brain and seeing what they have going on in their life that’s interesting to us.

Joke: It’s like boot camp producing.

Biagio: Oh, yeah.

Joke: It’s like, everything from where we’re staying, what are we doing. I know I worked on you guys on just the daily call sheet. How long do we think a certain thing is going to take? We have some extra time here. All of that stuff. It was everything because it was just this review. It’s carrying stuff. I remember talking to you guys about lunches. Just think ahead of time – where are you going to have lunch that day? Otherwise it will be four o’clock and you’ll all be starving.

Biagio: These two young guns over here made he feel like such an old man. I’m usually like, “We got to go, we got to go!” I was like, “Sit down and let me catch my breath. Seriously, we’re shooting for another hour?”

Joey: We pushed beyond.

Biagio: You pushed me but it was well worth it. For you two, I was happy to do it. But I was sore at the end of those days. Wow!

Joey: Look where we are!

Biagio: Look where we are. The thing that I thought was also really great was that you weren’t afraid to jump in and get your hands dirty. At this point, we’re investing but it’s not we want to spend tons and tons of money at this tape we had to work on it. I think we all carried a camera at some point, right? We were mic-ing up the girls. A lot of stuff is on the fly because it’s not like we’re writing scenes. This is reality television. We wanted to know what’s really going on in their lives and trying to fit our production schedule to what actually might be an interesting story in their lives right now.

Natalie: You’re also only there for a limited number of days but you want the sunrise shot and you want the sunset shot.

Joey: Which we did in one day!

Biagio: Yeah.

Natalie: So those became really long days.

Joey: Sunrise and sunset.

Natalie: We didn’t sleep.

Joey: We didn’t get shooting until ten PM that night.

Biagio: What would you tell people about those sheet days? There’s never been one of these sheet days for these tapes. What would you tell them to expect?

Joey: It’s brutal. You got to have the money to stay out there for two weeks. You don’t have the support that you would if you’re actually in production and while you’re doing it. At least when you’re in production you have a good idea of what your limits are and what works and what doesn’t work. When you’re out there doing this, it’s a learning experience. You find out what your limits are, how much the cast can take, what they do right and what’s not going to work. You’re constantly adjusting in this phase in the game.

Biagio: It really is a give and take because your cast, it’s new for them, too. All of sudden, they have cameras in their faces all day long and they’re not used to that. It starts to drive them a little bonkers. You have to get them to the point where they realize yes, it’s okay for you to go to the bathroom, no, we’re not going to follow you in the bathroom but you can’t hide in the bathroom just because you don’t feel like filming with us. It’s a whole learning process for the cast as well.

Joke: But it’s a good boot camp. It’s like you said, you learn. That’s another thing. When you go shoot a show, you pretty much know what the show is and you can kind of schedule your days. When you go on a sizzle or even presentation or pilot, you’re still figuring out what the show is. You’re shooting a lot of stuff that you may end up not using but you’re just trying a lot of different things which is also what’s making the days brutal. Is it worth the investment?

Joey: Absolutely! For us. The thing about this being announced like this is that it’s so exciting that it’s real now. We’ve been sitting here just wondering if it’s going to pay off. Hopefully, it still will in the end. But it’s nice to be able to talk about it and actually have proof that we got to this point which is so hard to do.

Biagio: It’s great! Like we said, it’s announced as a show. In development obviously doesn’t mean it’s a series yet but it’s a really good sign when the network does; they rarely do that.

But it gives us a chance to talk about this stage of the process which is so hard to discuss because normally, you can’t because no one’s said anything that it’s real so you can’t talk about it.

We went out and we shot. Joey forced me to eat donut holes for three days straight.

Joke: Yeah, thanks a lot.

Biagio: I was like, ‘I’m going to be really healthy’ and Joey’s like, “I think we should just get a bunch of donut holes. They’re great, throw them in your mouth all day long!”

Joey: That’s what happens when you take two East Coasters who got transplanted on LA.

Biagio: I know!

Natalie: Two Italians.

Joey: Two Italians, north eastern.

Biagio: Yeah.

Joey: We wanted to get donuts.

Joke: He was on a diet the next trip.

Joey: Such a diet.

Biagio: I was not touching the donut. I’m still on that diet.

We went out, shot a lot of footage. I think we actually shot, what was it, sixty hours, seventy hours?

Joey: No. I think we did three days. I think we officially shot three days.

Biagio: Three days but two cameras.

Joey: It felt like we shot sixty hours.

Joke: You probably had thirty hours which is still insane for a five-minute take-up.

Biagio: Yeah because our goal was to basically cut. At this point, it was no network up or nothing. This was all spec, right? At this point all we’re doing is we’re coming back with a footage and we’re trying to cut together the best three to five-minute tape we can that we believe networks will be interested in.

We got back and we had all this footage. Once again, major credit to Joey and Natalie, they dove right in, combing through the footage and said, “These were the good moments.”

Joey: That was the thing. By the time we were done just editing the first sizzle, we knew that footage backwards and forwards. Over the past couple of months we’ve had to go back and forth all through it.

Biagio: Joey was like, “Oh my God, I went to sleep last night and all I could see was the footage! It’s like, I can never stop working.”

Natalie: You dream about it. It becomes your life. It’s all you see.

Joke: But you also learn, I think – that’s what’s so great about you guys – doing this is, you want to learn all process of it. It’s like you see what you think worked and you watch the footage and you’re like, “That didn’t work.”

Natalie: Yeah.

Joke: You’re there. A lot of times when you shoot, there’s a certain energy in room, especially when you’re working with witches. There’s a certain kind of vibe in a room and energy. You’re going on a fourteen-hour day and you’re just a little sap-happy. You just think, ‘Oh my God, this is great’ and you come back in the day and you’re like, “That’s not going to work.”

Joey: It doesn’t always translate. It just don’t always translate the same when you get back and you see it on the screen.

Joke: Yeah.

Joey: That’s, I think, one of the most important things that we all did during that point and time, figuring out what worked and what didn’t work and really learning to put our energy into the stuff that was working.

Biagio: Yeah. Ultimately, it’s tough when you come back with thirty hours and you’re going to cut five minutes. By the way, there’s no script. What’s great about scripted, about doing independent film is you have a script so you know what to look for. With unscripted you’ve got thirty hours of stuff to dig through and try and figure out what five minutes we’re going to show the world. What was that process like? You guys have been through it a little bit before but it’s a big process.

Joey: We’re no stranger to editing and doing these types of sizzles and casting reels and what-not. With this, it’s so different than just doing casting reel because you’re selling the entire show and you need to really think about what their questions are going to be. Whoever your audience is going to be, the executives or what-not who’s watching this tape, you need to kind of figure out what their questions are going to be and get inside their head before they even have them.

Biagio: Yeah.

Joey: I think it’s finding the balance in the tape where you have everything there.

Biagio: You finish, you put it out in the world. The agents pitch it around and you hope everything is going to work out. The tape was very well received as it happens on most shows. For some network it wasn’t going to work either for political reasons or a myriad of reasons that had to do with where a network is at at a particular moment. Fortunately, as is evidenced by the press release and all that we can say at this point, Oxygen clearly loved it.

Natalie: Yeah. We went far up the chains at several networks.

Biagio: Oh, yeah! It was talked about a lot.

Natalie: I think we could say we ended up going with Oxygen because they were so excited that they made an offer very quickly and pretty much wanted to take it off the market.

Biagio: That’s true. They literally saw it and I think we found out that night or the next day that they wanted it.

At that point when a network is that excited, I think the smart thing is you adopt that network. I think what a lot of people might do in that situation is like, “Let’s get a bidding war going.” Honestly, these days, I hate to say it but that just tends to tick a lot of people off.

Natalie: If you have two parties bidding really fast, then that’s one thing. But to hold a party that’s super excited off for a long time while you’re trying to get a better offer –

Biagio: You get a piece of interest from someone who doesn’t seem quite as excited or can’t move as quickly for various reasons. Maybe someone is on vacation. When we say political, we literally mean behind the scenes, they guy who has to decide is on vacation for three weeks or someone over there did a similar project and had a horrible experience. It has nothing to do with you sometimes.

But this was a wonderful experience, top to bottom, for us. I really want to congratulate you two. If anybody takes anything away from this podcast, what I want you to learn is this. Joey and Natalie were very smart with their resources. They found a piece of talent they really liked.

Joke: They groomed that talent for like, a year and a half.

Biagio: They groomed that talent, did a lot of Skype interviews, got those Skypes to a point where someone could look at the Skype interviews and go, “I get that there could be a TV show here.” That’s where you need to be. Notice that yes, they spent a lot of time but they did not have to spend a lot of out-of-pocket money. It’s one thing to shoot a project because you’re going to learn something and you’re like, “I wanted to do this top to bottom so I have the experience.”

But people out there will go and spend all their credit cards, sixty, seventy, eighty, ninety thousand dollars I’ve heard, a hundred thousand dollars, I’ve heard on something that has no shot of going. What you guys did that was so smart is you put your resources into a Skype tape. At that point, you could have walked away no being broke. What happened when we signed the deal with them, Joey nearly jumped in and they wanted to learn every single thing they could about the process.

More than wanting to learn, they showed up. Let’s be honest, when we went out there this first time was really like an audition for the two of you. I didn’t know if you guys are going to be able to really handle the rigors of production, if you’d be able to deal with the cast, if you’re going to be able to plan the shoots. But you did all of that and more. What that proved to me and Joke was that you guys are more than ready to be partners on this show. Honestly, we want to work with you not just on this project but on a lot more going forward.

A lot of people say they want to do this, very few people actually show up and do the work. I can tell you that I slept easier at night because these two weren’t sleeping at night. They’re working their butts off. I know you’re going to have a long career. I hope you guys are going to bring us some other shows soon because I would love to work with you again. But I’m super excited that we’ve done this first one together. Thank you guys for having the guts to listen to us and to work as hard as you did. I really appreciate it.

Joey: Thank you guys.

Natalie: Thank you for the opportunity.

Joke: The war is just starting.

Natalie: We’re still in development.

Joke: Yeah. Talk to me in season five, then we’ll celebrate.

Biagio: Hopefully, this is the first of many.

For all of you listening, if you want to follow in Joey and Natalie’s footsteps, that’s what this whole podcast is for. Just sign up for the newsletter and follow directions to learn how you too can pitch to us. As you heard from Joey and Natalie firsthand, we really are doing this because we want to find partners we can work with. We want you to be a part of the process. We don’t want to cut you out. We actually consider you valuable. We want to work together.

Joke: As long as you step up.

Biagio: Yeah, as long as you step up. If you pitch us a show and then you disappear, I’m sorry, you’re useless.

Joey: To piggyback on what you’re saying about not spending your money on the tape, don’t spend it on the tape because you’re going to have to take off a lot. For real.

Biagio: Yeah!

Joey: Penny not earned.

Biagio: Exactly.

Joey: A lot of time you’re not working.

Natalie: It doesn’t happen overnight. It takes time so don’t get frustrated when you’re pitching it around and six months you still haven’t heard anything because that’s what happens.

Biagio: That’s a good point. When did you guys show us the spec tape? Do you remember?

Natalie: June or July, right?

Joey: Almost a year ago.

Biagio: Almost a year ago we saw the original Skype.

Joke: We went to Orlando in July.

Biagio: That’s actually kind of lightning-fast.

Natalie: You guys went out on Labour Day weekend. That’s early September.

Biagio: Yeah. We’ve been working on this almost a year and we’ve worked much longer on other shows. We said it before, show biz is slow biz. You have to know that going in or you’re going to go bonkers.

Joey: Yeah.

Natalie: Yeah.

Joke: Yeah.

Biagio: Thank you guys so much for being here today! Where can people find you at?

Joey: They can follow me at JoeyGCasting in Twitter. My Instagram is JoeyGLANY because I am from New York originally. If you want to check out my personal company website it’s GemelliEnts.com.

Natalie: I am on Instagram and Twitter at NatalieCasting.

Biagio: Great! Of course, me and Joke are @JokeandBiago pretty much everywhere.

That’s it, everybody! Thanks for tuning in!

Joke: Thank you so much!

Biagio: Thanks so much! We’ll see you in a couple of weeks! Bye!

Joke: Bye!

Announcer: Welcome to Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.