Wanna' read along? Here’s a machine-generated transcript you can use. Yes...expect a few mistakes, especially with funky industry terms, interesting names and tagging whoever's talking. If something sounds weird, trust your ears. But...sometimes that really is what we said!
Announcer: Welcome to Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.
Angry Man: Is this some kind of joke?
Unidentified Voice: Biagio. Who did this episode?
Biagio: It’s episode 131 and we’re talking about podcasting and TV. Three ways podcasting is changing TV production forever. How to maximize your storytelling across multiple platforms. What we’ve learned making series with both TV and podcast episodes. Why Ryan Seacrest can teach you something about the talent, and I showcase my beatboxing abilities.
Joke: Drumroll, please.
Biagio: Music courtesy Dave Pelman. Music Dave Pelman.com. Hey, everybody! She’s Joke Biagio. We’re married. We make unscripted film and television and want to help you do the same.
Joke: By teaming up with us. All right.
Biagio: Well, here we are, the end of April. Can you believe this year is flying by? Like, 2021 is like.
Joke: Are you getting up today? Because it’s literally the end of April. It’s literally.
Biagio: The end of April. Yes. This is going to go up today come heck or high water.
Joke: So we made it. We made it. We got a new.
Biagio: Podcast in by the end of the month. Anyways, listen, it’s you know, it’s a really exciting time right now to be a content creator. That’s what I want to talk about today, you know, for all of us, because I want to point this out. And it was not too long ago, not too long ago, the documentaries were, you know, rather gloomily referred to as the D word because nobody wanted to buy them. And if you said documentary, it was like, you might as well say, shoot me now. That has changed drastically in recent years also.
Joke: Because documentaries have, you know, changed and opened up and are more than, you know, slit my wrist television.
Biagio: That’s true, that’s true. They used to call them slip My wrist television. But thanks to places like Netflix and cable channels that are follow suit, documentaries and unscripted storytelling is as hot as it’s ever been, which is great. And, you know, the flip side of that? Not too long ago, podcasting was thought of as a geeky pastime for people like me. You know, it certainly wasn’t thought of as being any kind of mainstream thing. And if you mentioned podcast to a network executive, their head just spun off their body because they had no idea what you were talking about. Now, obviously that’s completely different. And what’s happening and what we’re right in the middle of is that, you know, TV and podcasting are really melding into this whole new mix of what it means to tell stories, and podcasting is really changing the way we think about and make TV.
Joke: I think there’s a booming business that not many people have figured out yet how to truly be able to live off off of, unless you’re, you know, Joe Rogan or Adam Carolla. But I do think that there is a great opportunity right now and kind of exploring how that is changing the TV landscape.
Biagio: And like I said, we’re right smack in the middle of it because suddenly our career podcasting has become a very real part. I mean, we’ve been doing this producing unscripted now since 2013. Won’t be long before we get to our ten year honey, okay? It’s two years away, like a year and a half. I guess like two years.
Joke: That’s 20%.
Biagio: Yeah. You still, I’m saying we’re we’re headed that way. But just.
Joke: So you know, we had a little baby, so that means she’ll be ten.
Biagio: That’s right, that’s right. When our daughter turns ten and we know it’s been ten years on the podcast.
Joke: Now, now, who wants to slow this down?
Biagio: I don’t want them to grow up. It’s going to fast anyways. But, you know, this started out as a small little fun thing we wanted to do to meet new people, maybe find some new projects. And because, you know, it’s not like fun, hey, we’ll make a podcast. It sounded like fun to me anyway. Isn’t joke agreed. Because she loves me. But now, in a very real way, podcasting is affecting our actual shows, so why not talk about three ways that we think podcasting has absolutely changed TV forever? And this is goes far beyond just awareness and promotion. Because sure, people have done podcasts to promote a TV show before and you know, and they’ve been whatever just to get the word out. But we really think it’s it’s going. Podcasting is about a lot more than that. So three ways podcasting is changing TV forever. Number one.
Joke: Drumroll please.
Biagio: That didn’t sound like a drum at all. Number one deeper storytelling.
Joke: Yes. You know, look, more time gives you more time to tell the story. So I do think that, like, with unmasking a killer, we had a great project, but we had so many hours of of compelling interviews and, you know, a lot of it ends up on the cutting room floor, and you have to kill some babies to make the time. And so it was very great for Turner, for CNN. And they have Turner Podcast to say, hey, let’s let’s do that companion podcast. Let’s take some of that stuff that we don’t have time for in a TV show. Let’s invest in doing a few extra interviews. Or in our case, it was mostly like follow ups and catch ups and then cut it together in a podcast. So I think that, you know, the deeper storytelling in the TV business immediately was like, okay, companion podcast, and people started seeing it as that. We can launch the companion podcast first, you know, maybe it will. It’ll be a marketing tool.
Biagio: In trade, a little buzz.
Joke: Exactly. And the verdict is still out. Whether the podcast audience is the same as your streaming audience or your TV audience. Some people say partly, some people say not at all. It’s definitely, I think, a different listener or audience member. It’s easier, I think, for podcast listeners to also go to television because everyone has been, you know, normalized with television. We know what that storytelling looks like. We’re not all television viewers are ready for kind of the deep dive that usually podcasting is. But again, deep dives, deeper storytelling. It’s a great way to get deeper, deeper into your story, expose more layers of the story.
Biagio: Well, and it’s great if you’re a producer in a storyteller, right? Because you spend years of your life on these projects, you know, you get to know every nook and cranny of a story. You know, every detail. I mean, joke remembers. I mean, so much stuff. She she’s forgotten more than I’ll ever remember about a lot of these stories, because we spent we spend so much time on them and it’s like, oh my God, this amazing story point has to go into trash. Oh, we got to really? We’re not gonna be able to tell the story point. Well, the great thing about doing a podcast like this, in addition to the awareness and getting the buzz out, is you finally get to make sure all those great little details get heard. And there is an audience out there that wants to really dive into these stories and hear every little thing. So as as a producer, as a storyteller, it’s just a great way to make sure that all those little incredible stories you found along the way have an audience have a chance to get to get heard.
Joke: No, totally. Because it’s also how many times have we heard from our like, people we interview. And, you know, you do a three hour interview and they’re like, great. You’re going to take like four bytes of this and put that in the show and that’s it. And with the podcast, we can really, you know, get into it more.
Biagio: All right. Well that brings us to the second way. We think podcasting is definitely changing television. And that’s podcasts as development.
Joke: Yeah. Look development gets very costly. And you know you do so much research and and to even in crime to to kind of put a strong pitch together. It takes a lot it takes a lot of interviews and getting to know the story and understanding the twists and turns and where everything goes. And so sometimes it makes more sense to just do it as a podcast first. As you’re doing this research, knowing that, you know, then you have that IP that can always turn into it into a TV show, as opposed to butting all that time in and not getting to the TV show until later and then maybe doing the podcast. So I think as you’ve seen, you know, even with the Dear John podcast, which was based on a news article, so they took the news article, turned it into a podcast, and then it turned into not just an unscripted television show, but also a scripted television show. So I think people in the industry are now in the television industry, are now looking at podcasts as possible IP to turn into TV shows, and I think content creators are looking at things like, oh, if I can get a podcast up and going as I’m doing this work anyway, and as I’m doing this work, I’m not getting paid for it anyway, I might as well be building an audience for it. I might as well be building valuable IP for it. That then gets me into a TV deal.
Biagio: Yeah, and also another great way that it works is in developing talent, hosting talent or investigative journalists to hone their voice. You know, this is a chance to go and really get to know a storyteller, figure out how somebody wants to tell their story and figure out how a piece of talent comes across. And it’s much easier to sort of experiment and try things on a podcast than it is on a television show. So I think it’s like a great training ground in a way, for people that are thinking they might want to be an on camera piece of talent or looking to find their voice. Podcasting is just a great way to try things and to get better at what you do. Honestly.
Joke: Totally. I mean, we’ve always said, right, like radio is a great training ground. I mean, part of why Ryan Seacrest is so good at his job is he spent years doing, you know, that kind of traffic copying on live radio. So podcasting is just a way for you all to practice radio without having to get hired by a radio station? So I think, yes, absolutely. It’s a great way for talent to hone their skills.
Biagio: 100%. And that brings us to reason number three. We think podcasting is changing TV, and that’s podcast and TV hybrids.
Joke: Like what we’re doing.
Biagio: Like what we’re doing right now. And it has been an amazing experience. So our our current series unraveled is follows investigative journalists Billy Jensen and Alexis Linkletter as they’re investigating different stories and doing a podcast series about those stories. So the TV show and the podcast are interwoven with each other from the start, which means right off the bat, we know we have so much fertile ground to explore for story and decide what goes where.
Joke: Yeah. So number one was really about the podcast coming after the TV show. Number two was about it coming before, and number three is really about it being together from the beginning. And so we pitched it together. You know, we had a network who was investing in it together. We’re researching it, shooting it you know, or audio recording it. We’re editing it. We’re all through. That entire process is happening simultaneously, and one really informs the other. And it’s it’s super it’s super cool and interesting. And as we were talking about before with like being able to dive deeper into it as a storyteller, you know, I’m like, great, I have a nine hour podcast or have a seven hour podcast. I can really get into stuff. And as we’re looking at the television show and going, oh, we have to cut this down for time. You know, we’re normally I’d be like.
Biagio: No, I don’t want to cut this. I don’t want to cut this. It’s like, well, at least.
Joke: It’s still.
Biagio: In the podcast.
Joke: So it’s not, you know, I don’t want to say wasted, but it’s like someone will it will get to the light of day. And so that’s that’s what’s exciting about it. And I do believe, you know, I’d was kind of first out there with us on this. And I’m hoping that more and more networks and streamers will end up doing this model because it is really it’s just really cool, you guys. It’s just a lot of fun.
Biagio: Well it is. You get to explore story. You get to interview so many more people. Also, from a geeky technical standpoint, and I’ll include this in the show notes, which you’ll be able to find at producing unscripted 131. So this is episode 131. Adobe actually did a little story on us about how we’ve integrated the television show with the podcast, because it’s something we had never done before, because the TV show in the podcast are all sharing the same media, the same audio stuff from the TV show as being pulled over into the podcast. So it was a whole different kind of technical setup. And funnily enough, we ended up basically finishing both in Adobe Premiere and it’s working great, which, you know, wasn’t something we started right off the bat, but I’ll let you read all about that in the awesome blog post Adobe wrote over at Adobe. Com but I would just like to say as a, you know, as an editor and someone who is kind of an Adobe fanboy, I’ve really enjoyed the process of doing not only the TV show, but also the podcast right inside of premiere, and it works great. I just, I love it.
Joke: I love that it works great because it doesn’t stop our creative.
Biagio: Exactly.
Joke: Our creative timeline and moving forward. So as long as it keeps working, I will keep loving.
Biagio: It. 100%. All right, so I know this was called three. You know three ways we think podcasting is changing TV. But we have two bonus things. I don’t even know if the first one is actually a bonus, but you might not know. We’re also involved with another true crime podcast. Do you want to talk about it, honey?
Joke: Yes, this one is called Trust Me and it’s anywhere Apple Podcasts anywhere you listen to your podcast if you love calls, are fascinated with that phenomenon as much as I am, you’re going to love. This podcast is hosted by Lola and Meghan, who are both called survivors, and every episode they interview somebody from a specific cult. And you’d you’d be surprised how many cults there are. They just keep booking them. And it’s just been amazing. Anyway, we helped launch it and kind of consulted with them and are producing. But yeah, Lola and Megan are the stars of it and they host it and it’s really, really fantastic. Definitely check it out if you can.
Biagio: Yeah, it’s really cool. And I think the scariest part is how susceptible it seems like anyone could be to getting pulled into a cult like people. You would never think totally.
Joke: I mean, it’s one of those things where, you know, calls that kind of roll my eyes and I’d be like, yeah, okay. But then you really kind of hear these stories and, you know, I don’t think we’re we’re as safe from being caught up in the next cult as people think they are. You know, the process of how they lure people in and and how it starts small and then it turns bigger. It’s really it’s really fascinating to hear these stories from people who, one were either born into it and never knew any differently. And then, you know, somehow we’re able to get out, which is amazing. Or other people who just, you know, it sounded great in the beginning and everything seemed to make sense. And so it’s something you sign up for, and people find families and connections and validation in those places. And then and then usually it ends up turning not so great, but but anyway, it’s a fantastic podcast. It’s called Trust Me.
Biagio: Yeah.
Joke: Check it out. It’s a great title for.
Biagio: And again it will be in the show notes at Producing Unscripted one three, one. And the last little cheesy bonus tip it’s not really it’s not really changing television, but I guess it kind of is. Is this podcast right here producing unscripted? Right. Our crazy experiment that we’ve been doing now for eight years to meet people and hear pitches, and we’ve teamed up with some really cool people. Abra, you know, Mark Jackson, of course, you all know about Todd Lindsay and unmasking a killer. Producers of all experience levels. So as always, you know, if you think you might want to pitch a show to us, it’s really easy. Go to producing unscripted, sign up for the newsletter, follow the directions. Now. You know, I got a caveat it with we get a lot of submissions and starting last year, we haven’t been able to officially respond to every single submission we get. We just get too many. But we really do look at all of them. And and we do find a few people every year that we team up with and go out and pitch a show together. So hopefully you’re next, because that would be awesome. But even if you decide never to pitch to us, we hope this podcast helps you in your career, your storytelling. You know, there’s a 131 episodes, all aimed at helping you understand how the unscripted television production business works. So, you know, enjoy. And whether or not you ever work with us. We wish you all the best.
Joke: I hope you enjoyed this one.
Biagio: I hope you enjoyed this one too. And I’m sure that come May 31st. Are there are there 31 days in May? There are, there are. I’m sure they come May 31st. The next one will be up hopefully by then or on that day. We are in production, as you probably guess, and we’re in the middle of delivering four episodes right now.
Joke: Versus Memorial Day.
Biagio: So it’ll be before that hopefully, hopefully or after that. But anyways, the next one will be out in about a month. Why don’t we just say that? There you go. And in the meantime, we’re going to go back to to post all the post action over here on these these episodes of unraveled. Stay tuned for when the next two our TV documentary and multiple our podcast series will be launching. It’s not too not too far away. And that’s it. Thanks for thanks for happening. Listening. It’s good to have you all and it’s been a crazy eight year journey. I’m glad you’re still listening.
Joke: All right. We’ll talk soon.
Announcer: All right. Take care. Bye. By Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.
