Typed by hand. It may still contain mistakes; the recording is the original.
Announcer: Welcome to Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.
Angry Man: Is this some kind of joke?
Confused Woman: Biagio-WHO???
Announcer: This episode…
Biagio: It’s episode 31 and we’re talking story engines. What is a story engine. How is a story engine helps your audience. How Dance Mom’s, The First 48, and our own shows used story engines. And why Joke is saying through a painful smile.
Joke: I’ve had better days.
Announcer: Music courtesy of Dave Pelman Music, davepelman.com
Biagio: Hey everybody she’s Joke.
Joke: He’s Biagio.
Biagio: We’re married. We make unscripted film and television and we want to help you do the same hopefully by teaming up with us. Well last week in episode 30 we started out by announcing that we are expecting a little boy. Joke how are you feeling today?
Joke: You know, I’ve had better days.
Biagio: My poor wife is a trooper. She’s not having the best morning and yet here we are bringing you another podcast episode. Honey I think that shows real dedication to our listeners. You are awesome!
Joke: Thank you.
Biagio: Alright, So without further ado we are going to dive right in so that my wife can get back to taking care of herself. And today we want to talk about something called a Story Engine. Does your show have a story engine? It’s a term that gets used in our industry a lot. Sometimes it’s also called a hidden format but I love the term story engine.
Here’s why; it refers to an element in an unscripted television show that adds a repeatable, identifiable structure that audiences can relate to week after week by providing stories. Thus, it is a story engine.
Joke: It’s also an engine we all know is used to drive things or move things forward. When you’re doing docu-series or other stuff, it’s like how do I know the story’s going to progress from the beginning of the episode, to the end of the episode. From episode one, two and so on and so forth. What is the engine that drives your stories is really the question to ask yourself when you’re coming up with new shows.
Biagio: Yeah, now in broad terms, we’re going to get into specifics in a second like we always do but in broad terms, a typical story engine for a show might be, what’s the job of the week? Maybe you’re following an interesting business, and every week they take on a different job. That job of the week is your story engine. It’s providing that week’s story. In crime shows, you’ll see the case of the week, right.
The First 48, or Doug the Bounty Hunter you’re coming in to see what is the case of the week. That case is your story engine. Now that’s what is giving your characters something real to do week after week. It’s pointing the camera at that story engine and letting that drive your story. Again part of the reason this also known as a hidden format is because some shows feel a little bit more like follow docs.
By the way if these words sound confusing to you. Go back toepisode five, producinunscripted.com/005. Five magic words for pitching reality TV. But some shows would feel more like a little bit more like a follow doc yet still have an identifiable element. One of those is Millionaire Matchmaker.
Joke: Yeah and I also want to talk real quick about Dance Moms. BecauseI think Millionaire Matchmaker, you kind of get that the story engine isn’t that hidden, right? It’s every episode she meets new client. She has to find them dates. We follow the dates and we find out if she made the match or not.
It’s part of what’s in the title. And so I think another interesting example is Dance Mom’s. Because you look at Dance Moms, and you might think of it more as a version of some kind of housewives shows. It’s Dance Moms it’s the stage moms of little dancer girls or that kind of stuff. But their strong story engine is every week they know they have a competition coming up and so it starts with how really their instructors saying, “We’re going to have an important competition. You’re going to get to solo. You’re going to do this, you’re going to do that, and they practice and then you see them perform in the competition and find out whether or not they did well or they didn’t.” But in a docu-series that is such a strong story engine because it involves your main characters.
And Dance Moms it’s your main characters who are part of your hidden format. It’s even more hidden in the Millionaire Matchmaker but that engine is there that progresses the relationships between the characters. The moms who were like, “I thought my daughter did better than your daughter.” The relationship between Abby and the mom’s, “I thought my daughter deserved the solo and she did so well last week, why doesn’t she deserve a solo this week?”
It’s important to see that even in a docu-series like Dance Mom’s that they have such a strong story engine driving them. So when you pitch us a show that is character based, a lot of the times our first questions are, “What do they do? What is it that could be driving the stories? What is it that naturally and organically will make conflict happen, solutions happen, obstacles be put in their way. How are they going to overcome them?” Rather just by it being, “Oh we’re just going to sit with them at home.”
Biagio: Yeah, I think the example of one of our own show that did that was Caged on MTV. I mean that was a very doc leading hybrid. Probably one of the purest doc shows we ever shot and yet that absolutely had a story engine, right Joke?
Joke: Yes, I mean we’re following these young guys who are in the amateur mixed martial arts circuit and obviously the end goal for them is to break out and go pro and leave their small town and go do big things with their lives. And so we follow them over a period of almost nine months to a year where we know they have these fights coming up. And every fight is an opportunity for them to shine. To get a better record, to excel. If they don’t, we know at the end of the day they’ll either win or they’ll lose.
Two guys going into a cage. So the story happens no matter what and that’s what a story engine is. It’s something is in place, no matter the outcome, you know you will have a story. So whether it is they won yeah I’m one step closer to my dream. I’m going to set some bigger goals for the next fight. Or I lost, oh no is this really the path for me? Or did I just have a bad night? The doubt start settling in. Either way, you know you have stories so you don’t have to create story, or fix story, write story or any of that stuff. There is a strong engine in place that is happening and is creating story no matter what.
Biagio: Yeah, another one of our shows Commercial Kings on IFC with Rhett and Link. For those of you who don’t know Rhett and Link, they’re YouTube superstars. They made some incredible, really funny, local commercials that have gotten a hundred million ofviews. And so our show Commercial Kings was literally following them in what they do which is helping small businesses make really funny local commercials. More format than anything that we’ve talked about today but it was still following two real people.
Joke: Yeah, It’s a format that was very much built around these two particular talents. I think you’d be hard pressed to just replace them with just any other two. Because frankly, the story engine is their creativity. It’s what they see that they can do with this local business that is going to be fun and entertaining for anybody who is watching and is still going to feel good for the person participating. So to me they are more of the story engine in that because again, I can’t just replace them with two guys that I cast to go do the same thing.
The show wouldn’t have the same kind of charm and stories and creativity and outcomes and finished commercials, than what we would get with Rhett and Link.
Biagio: On the other hand, how about a show that everybody who has heard of like Dirty Jobs. I mean that is really more of a pure format where you could really swap out the host.
Joke: Yeah, I mean Dirty Jobs is one hundred percent format. The format was created before Mike Rowe was cast. I think they were trying to find a bigger name and then the producers really liked Mike and said,“Let’s just give Mike a shot.” And obviously the show made Mike like a star. But yes they were casting hosts at that point.
So they were meeting many different people. Again the show was not created for Mike. Mike fit the show perfectly. And listen, to Mike’s credit and to the producer’s credit, I’m sure over the seasons, they molded the show more to him and he molded more to the show and so they become synonymous pretty much in the end. But it really is a format show that you could plug and play different types of people in.
Biagio: And because of that Joke tell me if you agree or disagree, I feel like the word as story engine and of course hidden format. They really used more in shows that are a little bit more doc. A little bit more follow doc. A little bit more hybrid because in a show like dirty jobs, it’s a format. We are going to go see a dirty job every week but in a show where you are following real people, the question is what are we seeing every week? And so you’re trying to discover what that story engine is in those people’s lives, something that is real and authentic.
Joke: Right, the format means story engine, right? So if you look at a show like Survivor. There’s no hidden format, it’s just pretty right there.
Biagio: It’s out in the open format.
Joke: Right, its very right out in the open. There are sixteen of you and we are putting you on an island. You’re going to do some challenges and in the end one of you will rocks away with the million dollars. So there is nothing hidden about it, the story engine is the format. So we are bringing this up in terms of the docu-series or more of your hybrid shows to really give you another way of thinking of the idea of the hidden format.
What can help make your docu-series thrive? One of the reasons we’re bringing this up is a lot of you are pitching characters and great characters, and not so great characters. But the point being is that a great character is awesome but that’s step one. The very next question we have for you is even if you bring us a great character is, okay so what is the show? What would be your story engine? What are we going to see week to week?
How are the relationships between the characters progressing week to week in an organic and authentic way? So we’ll ask hey does you character work in a business? Does your character have an interesting family business? Is there something that your character is trying to accomplish every week? For example, you walked in with Dog the Bounty hunter.
He’s an amazing character but then you go, “What’s the show? We’re going to follow Doug playing chess in the park.” I don’t know if that’s the show that would’ve made the hit that it is.
Biagio: A little bit different.
Joke: We’ll follow Dog in his job, and his job is he’s the bounty hunter. And so every story, every episode will follow him catching one or two guys that need to come back and you’ll have the stories of the family saying that, “We don’t want to lose our bonds.” Or you have the story of the wanted person, maybe they’re bad guy or they’re really just the good guy who’s scared or they don’t always be guys, sometimes they’re women. But that is in your story engine.
So I know every week I’m going to see Dog dealing with these cases but also these cases will impact his relationship with the people he works with. His family, his wife and all those things. Because it’s really a hard case, he’s really tense, you get the point.
Absolutely, we are talking about in context of docu-series or kind of the hybrid stuff and it’s really thinking about the word story engine and we’ve never used the word here but we use it all the time. And so we realized that it was a mistake on our part. That we should talk to you guys about it. Because for me it is a very good visual word because again the engine implies that we are moving the stuff forward. And so with the story engine it’s like how are we moving the story forward within the episode and from episode to episode, season to season.
And so when you find big characters, when we say, “Hey what’s the show?” What we mean is, “Hey what’s the story engine? What is going to get the story going every week.”
Biagio: So there you have it. Next time you are getting ready to pitch us some big characters, or you think you found a really interesting business, or just a really interesting show that you think that I would love to see this on television and that show is more of a follow doc or a hybrid. Figure out what your story engine is. Is it the job of the week?
Is it the case of the week? Is it something else that hasn’t been created before that can give us a new story week after week? What is that story engine, that’s going to help get us really excited about your show and it’s going to help all of us. Show that show to a network. So that is it for today. Hey Joke you made it through.
Joke: Yeah!
Biagio: She didn’t sound sick at all. She’s amazing. I worship you honey, you are incredible.
Joke: You’re the best.
Biagio: You’re the best. Alright everybody, well hey we’ll see you in two weeks. Until next time bring us some great shows. If you’re new to the podcast go and listen to our last episode producinunscripted.com/030. Our thirtieth episode in which we broke down simple step by step process of pitching to us and of course check out our website producingunscripted.com and make sure that you sign up for the newsletter. And that’s it. Until next time, we are so happy that you’re here week after week. And we really appreciate it.
Joke: Two weeks after two weeks.
Biagio: Yeah, two weeks after two weeks. Regardless we’re glad you’re listening and we hope to get to work together with you soon.
Joke: We’ll see you soon!
Announcer: Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.
