Typed by hand. It may still contain mistakes; the recording is the original.
Update (September 2026): The former members-only pitch site and login described below have been retired. For current pitch instructions and access status, see How to Pitch Shows to Us.
Announcer: Welcome to Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.
Angry Man: Is this some kind of joke?
Confused Woman: Biagio-WHO???
Announcer: This episode….
Biagio: It is episode 25. How to find out what shows we are looking for right now? How to better pitch format? The geeky project we have been working on for you finally revealed. Why some of your pitches have been falling flat and what you can do to fix them. And Joke offers a piece of intriguing advice.
Joke: A dentist cannot tell you how your teeth are doing without looking in your mouth, right?
Announcer: Music courtesy of Dave Pelman Music, davepelman.com
Biagio: Hey everybody, she is Joke.
Joke: He is Biagio.
Biagio: We are married and we make unscripted film and television and want to help you do the same hopefully by teaming up with us.
Well, I want to take a hot romantic second here to thank my beautiful wife for doing this podcast for me and getting us all the way to today which is episode 25. Thank you, honey.
Joke: You are welcome.
Biagio: I think you all know by now I am sort of the geeky half of this partnership and Joke agreed to do this podcast with me really for a couple of reasons. One, she knew it would make me happy and that means a lot to me, so thank you.
But two, she really honestly truly wanted to reach out to aspiring filmmakers and producers and look for new shows. And here we are episode 25, we have now teamed up I think with seven of you. And the fact of the matter is we have been getting tons of pitches that are getting better and better. So first of all, we want to say thank you.
Joke: Yes and that is the exciting part. I mean obviously all of you are listening and taking notes and paying attention and that is just super-duper exciting to us because the pitches really are getting a lot better and thank you. Thank you for that.
Biagio: Yes thank you so much and so for our 25th episode we wanted to do something special.
Joke: Yes and Biagio is very excited. We have two main things to talk about. One is this incredible geeky project he has been working on.
Biagio: It is geeky.
Joke: And the second is a little bit of advice that we want to pass on to you guys because of stuff that we have learned from the many pitches we are getting in and that is really about what is a format. But before we get to that.
Biagio: Before we get to that, I have been working on a geeky project because as Joke and I have learned the hard way, getting hundreds and hundreds of submissions via email is not the way to go. It does not make it easy for us to stay on top of your submissions or to get back to you quickly. So just in time for this, our 25th episode, my lovely wife has both inspired me to take on and give me permission to complete this geeky project.
What is it? It is essentially a password-protected website that does two things. One, it allows you to submit your show ideas to us so that they end up in a database where we can get back to you quicker. And two, and most exciting for you, it provides you with a list of shows we are looking for right now. Happy 25th anniversary from Producing Unscripted.
Joke: So, on the first step in terms of making the submission process more streamlined, it will help you guys and us. You will not need emails from us before you finally get to submit. It is all very simple and straightforward, literally sign up for the newsletter and follow the instructions. It is that simple.
Biagio: It is that simple if you already are in the newsletter, you can just follow the old link to the previous application. I have now forwarded that to the new site and your previous password for that old application will still work at the new site.
Joke: And a little extra goodie we threw on the side is just giving you guys some insight into the kind of shows we are looking for at that exact moment. These are not the only shows we are looking for. If you are working on something and it does not fit those categories, it is fine. You can still submit it anyway. This is really just a guide.
If you happen to be working on a show that fits these kinds of things we are looking for then maybe it just moves up in your list of priorities and you can focus on that. Or if you are kind of just wondering I don’t know what should I develop next or what I should go look for next, hopefully these will guide you and give you some directions so you are not working in a vacuum.
Biagio: Here’s some direction, if you find something in one of these words, chances are we are going to be interested. And again, feel free to pitch any other ideas. We will update this list regularly.
Those of you that are signing up for the password-protected site will get updates via email when we add new shows to the list and when we are no longer looking for something, either because we have received too many pitches in that area or networks have just moved on and do not want that anymore, we will update the list as well.
Joke: So that is obviously cool benefit to it. Biagio has grand plans and grand ideas of adding other tools and tips and tricks. But at this point, it is a brand new site so we are really testing out the submission process and want to see how it plays out.
We are not web designers by trade. We are storytellers and television producers so please bear with Biagio and us as we may make tweaks to the site in the coming months. But really we just kind of want to get it out there and see how it works and we will take it from there.
Biagio: And it is a testament to all of you that Joke loves you so much that she let me take this on because a lot of our honey one-on-one time has been taken up by me working on this website at night after we put our daughter to bed and she really only let me do it because she is so grateful to all of you who are submitting your shows.
Joke: And let us be honest, if I knew it would have taken six weeks I probably would not have agreed to it.
Biagio: She probably would not.
Joke: But anyway, we are so excited that it is up and running and look forward to you guys using it and your feedback and all that stuff.
Wise Young Man: My daughter always told me you cannot sell ice to Eskimos or peanuts to people with peanut allergies.
Impressed Woman: Whoa.
Joke: Which brings us to the second main thing we wanted to talk about. Again this is based on a lot of the pitches we are getting and so this is our feedback kind of back to you of what we are seeing and the pattern emerging.
We take part of responsibility in this. I know I do because I think we have been very clear, we have talked about, there are two different kinds of shows, there is format and docuseries. Obviously there is the hybrid one in between but we are always very clear for docuseries if it involves characters, if it involves real people, we cannot judge that show.
We cannot tell you whether or not we are interested or not or whether we think it has a chance or not unless we see tape on the people. That has always been very clear and by the way, we cannot pitch anything to the network in this area or even tell our agents about it unless they see tape just the same.
It is one of those things, a dentist cannot tell you how your teeth are doing without looking in your mouth. Right? So same thing with docuseries.
Now I think with format, we have not always been clear and so what is happening is a lot of you are pitching us formats but just pitching us the big idea of the format. And that is where we are running into trouble.
An idea is not worth a lot. We have usually heard it a hundred times so the way you can really make that pitch, stand out and make yourself valuable to that pitch is actually format out the format.
It is difficult because both words are the same. The style of the show is called format and what you actually pitch to us is also called format. I think that is where the miscommunication has happened. But the pitched out format has to include specific tent poles. A format has different things that happen recurringly over different episode so one of those examples is Survivor.
Biagio: Easy example. You have all seen Survivor. It has very clear tent pole moments. That is tent pole. T-E-N-T-P-O-L-E moments. That is the word we used in our industry and Survivors are really clear.
Joke: Yes. Obviously the tent poles and the format has changed over the last 20 years because they keep trying to keep the format fresh.
Biagio: Spice it up, keep it alive.
Joke: So first we start with two tribes and now they are trying some three tribe thing and all that stuff but you know you always start with an episode of the fallout from the last elimination. You have your reward-type challenge or they did like the exile-type challenge at some point and there is the immunity challenge and then there is the strategizing of who is going home and then there is the tribal council that includes talking with the host, the voting, and then the extinguishing of the flame.
You know as an audience member who tune in, you turn on the television and you see they’re in an immunity challenge, you know you are already halfway through that episode. Same thing if you watch the Law and Order or if you watch scripted formatted shows.
The format elements, the tent poles are what makes a format a format and you feel comfortable and you are watching it. But by the way, this does not just apply to big arced competitions.
Millionaire Matchmaker is a formatted show. Patty Stanger, your matchmaker, she meets with the millionaire separately. She figures out what their problems have been in the past and what they really should be looking for. She meets with her team as they talk about which girls could be good matches. She sets up the cocktail hour where both millionaires meet a group of women and choose.
There is drama in there but we know the cocktail hour, that first kind of big group meeting is a tent pole format. Then we follow the two millionaires on their dates with each girl to see how that works out. And then we have the moment at the end of the episode where Patty checks back in with the millionaire and gives her feedback on did it go well, did it not go well etcetera, etcetera.
Those are tent pole moments, whether it is self-contained or arced show, whether it is competition or it really is kind of docu like Millionaire Matchmaker is, you cannot pitch a format without pitching the format elements that make up that format.
Biagio: And the other thing that really helps your format come alive is to make sure you come up with a unique colorful nomenclature that you attach to each of the tent pole moments like Survivor, right? They have the immunity challenge. They have the reward challenge. They have tribal council. They have “the tribe has spoken.”
They have these killer elements that are more than just ideas. They have very colorful specific names and even if those names never actually end up on the final show, get changed before it ever goes to air, or are only there for people reading the paper pitch and viewers will never actually hear those names, the point is they help us to understand the format.
And the other part of that is when you name these tent pole items and you are discussing how they work. Also discuss what the fallout from these format items are.
So you know that if someone wins immunity challenge on Survivor, that changes the dynamics of the tribe. It causes a lot of tension. It causes a lot of drama.
So how do your tent pole moments cause great story to happen among the people who are on the show. Because the challenge is only good as the drama tension or changes that it causes among the contestants of that show. That is how you make sure that when you are giving us a format that it is more than just an idea.
Joke: It is also important for us to tell you right now that please do not just rehash tent pole elements that you have seen on a hundred shows. This is where you add value, it is by you being creative and bringing an outsider’s perspective to some of these tried and true format elements by how can you spice them up, how would making some changes to them help make a game that we have seen a hundred time just new and exciting.
Again do not think of the tent pole elements as boring kind of homework where you are like, “Okay and then this happens, does happen, it is like we have seen a hundred times.”
This is your chance to make your format special and your format stand out with the nomenclature that Biagio has said but also with what these tent pole moments are and how they affect the course of the episode of the story.
Biagio: Yes. Listen we just really want to drive that home again because it is pretty clear with docusoaps, you shoot some tape and great character, you write up a one sheet just like we talked about last episode, episode 24.
Really it is the same thing for formats as far as the one sheet goes but then you really want to expand into a bigger document about these tent pole items and how they are going to shape the course of your show.
If you are new to our podcast, please go back and listen to Ideas Are Not Enough, producingunscripted.com/002 and How to Make Yourself Valuable, producingunscripted.com/003 and if you are confused by any of the words we are using like hybrid and docusoap and format and tent pole, please go listen to episode 5 producingunscripted.com/005 which are the Five Magic Words of Pitching Reality Television.
Really, and before you pitch to us, you just listen to at least the first eight episodes because that really breaks down what makes a great character, what makes a great world and I think we are getting pitches from a lot of people who do not know this podcast exist because we are not hearing the right words in a lot of cases.
On the other hand, a lot of you are pitching us perfectly. You are using all the right words, you are taking all the advice, let me tell you, when we get a pitch like that - we notice.
Joke: Yes and it just makes it a lot easier and quicker for us to respond too because we know what you are pitching us because you are very clear about it and so then we can immediately start a conversation about taking that pitch to the next level.
If it is very kind of all over the place and it is more of an idea and it is not really rough it is just very hard for us to tell you and give you specific advice of what could work or what could not work because the truth of the matter is you could probably take any idea and with the right point of view and with the right style and with the right angle and way into the story, there might be something there.
But that is all on us to figure out. You have to understand, that idea means nothing. If we have to create everything, if we have to create it then you are not really pitching us a show, you are just pitching us a one-liner that has been out there probably a hundred times. Pitch us shows, pitch us formats or docuseries but really think it through.
Biagio: Yes and of course if you feel stuck or you need some inspiration, use our new list and our new password-protected site of shows we are looking for right now. Because I guarantee you if you find some stuff in those worlds, we are going to be excited.
Joke is letting me work on one more little top secret geeky project. More on that next time I think, if it is done. It is nowhere near as involved as this website with the whole database back and I have been working on for the last six weeks but it will be very useful for you.
And finally, we have a new Google+ page that if you want to connect with us.
Joke: If you are even on Google+.
Biagio: Joke is convinced no one is on Google+. I feel differently and I think that Google+ is the way over the future. Anyways for those of you who are on Google+ or looking for an excuse to join, our Google+ page is Joke and Biagio Plus.
Joke: P-L-U-S.
Biagio: P-L-U-S. Joke and Biagio Plus. P-L-U-S. Apparently Joke and Biagio is not available. Well they would not let us happen anyway.
Joke: That is okay. Joke and Biagio Plus.
Biagio: Plus. It is like bonus. It is like extra. Thank you again for all of you listeners, especially to all who listened to all 25 episodes. We are so grateful to you and we are so grateful to every single one of you that has taken the time to pitch us a show and we promise you if you listen to this podcast and you do what we tell you and you pitch us enough concepts, eventually we are going to find something to make together.
So thank you and I guess we will see you next time for episode 26.
Joke: What, what.
Biagio: He-hey. See you in two weeks. Bye everybody.
Joke: Bye.
Announcer: Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.
