Pat Postiglione: Becoming a TV Personality

Announcer: Welcome to Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.

Angry Man: Is this some kind of joke?

Unidentified Voice: Biagio.

Biagio: Who did this episode? It’s episode 114, and we’re talking about the journey from regular job to TV personality investigation Discovery’s newest addition, Pat Leone, walks you through what it’s like getting your own TV series, what producers need to think about when working with real people. Stepping in front of the camera for the first time. The wild journey from pitch tape to television show advice for aspiring television talents, and some important lessons from behind the scenes. There’s an old saying in the film industry that your your project is only as good as the food you feed your crew. And I think, like you found that to be the case.

Pat Postiglione: I think that’s right.

Biagio: Music courtesy Dave Pelman. Music Dave Pelman. Com. Hey, everybody. She’s joke. He’s Biagio. We’re married. We make unscripted film and television and want to help you do the same.

Joke: Hopefully by teaming up with us.

Biagio: Well, today we are super excited because we have with us, though he won’t call himself a star because he’s very humble. The star of our new television series Deadly Recall, Pat Leone, and now Pat was an incredible homicide detective in Nashville. For over 20 years. He worked on hundreds of cases, both taking the lead and supervising.

Joke: Welcome, Pat.

Pat Postiglione: Hey. Nice to be here, guys. Thank you.

Biagio: Now, I got to ask you, Pat, you know, over 20 years, you help solve some of the most notorious homicides in Nashville, right? You were part of something called the murder squad, and you helped out in hundreds of investigations, oversaw hundreds more. Now, did you ever think at the time that one day you’d have your own TV show?

Pat Postiglione: Well, you know, actually it was over 25 years. It was actually 25.5 years in homicide. But but who’s counting? But but anyway. But no, I mean, actually, you know, when you’re working in the murder squad like I was, you know, you become so deeply entrenched in these homicide investigations. I mean, you know, months turned into years. And before you know it, you’re there 20 years. So the thought of anything along these lines, the TV show, anything like that never, ever crossed my mind. And I’m sure it never crossed the mind of any of the other guys that I work with.

Biagio: Well, you know, it’s really interesting because a lot of people listening would like to create a television show maybe set around a real person or a real person themselves who thinks they might like to be on TV. But the fact of the matter is, you know, we always say people need to be really good at what they do at the top of their game and almost not care about a television show. And that’s sort of the category you fall into. Right.

Pat Postiglione: I mean, at least for me, you know, in terms of thinking about a TV show, anything along those lines? Yeah. I mean, I never thought about that. The only thing we focused on really was just solving the homicide. And, you know, and based on the unit I was in, we went from one homicide to the other. So there wasn’t a whole lot of downtime. There wasn’t a whole lot of, you know, you sacrifice family time, you sacrificed personal time, you know. So thinking about something along the lines of a TV show really, really never came up.

Joke: And even once you retired from the Murder Squad, you’ve been consulting with the Nashville DA’s office off and on here and there. So because I know even from us working together sometimes be like, no, I got to go to the DA’s office today. Can’t can’t make no TV show.

Biagio: And I can’t tell you why. Because it’s confidential. Right.

Pat Postiglione: Right. No. That’s true. I mean, yeah, I mean, I still I’m still doing work similar to what I was doing with the police department, except now I’m able to do it at a much more slower pace. I’m able to look at cases. In some cases, I’m able to look at cold cases that I was familiar with when I was with the police department. So I’m able to go down that road, but I’m able to do it at a much more sane pace, so to speak. You know, at a slower pace. When I was with the police department, I was literally sprinting every single day. I never took the time to slow down because you really can’t. It’s difficult to slow down and still solve the case because there’s so many things that need to be done. And if you slip up on time or if you miss something, you may not be able to get that something back.

Joke: Right now, we first got introduced to you through Sharon Ferrell, who’s a producer who had worked in the business before and brought some shows to us, and you were one of the pieces of talent that we started talking about. What did you think when Sharon first approached you about doing a TV show?

Pat Postiglione: Well, Sharon had called me in the past about a couple of other cases, and she had talked. She was interested in doing something along the lines of a murder squad concept, where you would talk to several detectives about cases they worked, and then you would go from detective to detective, and she felt like that was maybe an avenue that would people would find interesting. And, you know, and I was okay, if that’s what she thought. Then I was with her. She’s the expert. And then she brought it to you guys. And I think there was some discussion about that. And then the discussion maybe morphed into something. Well, maybe the group isn’t the best way to go. Maybe we could limit it down to one detective. And next thing you know, I’m getting a phone call and you guys are coming to Nashville.

Joke: So what was that like for you? And all of a sudden, the two of us. And we brought Chris along. Who helped shoot it, who worked with us a lot, who fly into Nashville. And that was a first of all, it was a very hot and humid day. But what was that like for you?

Pat Postiglione: Well, you know, I’ve done interviews before with different companies involving different cases, but nothing along these lines. I never anticipated what, you know, the process was so involved. I had no idea how involved the process would be. You know, even even when you guys came in and you were doing the interviews that you were doing, you wanted to make sure everything. You know, you want to insure perfection. You were an attention to detail. You know, you did all that. How many people are involved? It’s not just the camera person and the person doing the interview. It’s a lot, a lot deeper than that. And that was, I think, my biggest surprise, how many people you guys rely on behind the camera, so to speak. You know, to get the job done. But it was all new to me. So whatever you guys said, I believed. So that’s that’s what it was.

Biagio: That’s excellent. Now, you know, we came in obviously, and we were talking with you. And when you lift the show went, we’d be telling, you know, stories about real cases you worked over the years when you were thinking about doing this show with us. What was important to you about how this show would come together, about how we would make these episodes if it worked out?

Pat Postiglione: I mean, to me, my my heart has always been with the families of the victims, you know, in terms of bringing them some sort of closure, bringing them some sort of justice. And over the years, I’ve had a lot of high profile cases in those high profile cases that got a lot of news coverage, a lot of media. So maybe those victims families were able to tell the stories of their loved ones, where some of these other victims that didn’t get that same publicity weren’t able to do that. So what I wanted to be able to do is for the families to talk about the victims, other than being a homicide victim, other than being a statistic. I wanted them to be able to talk about the victims as being a mother, a brother, sister, father, whatever the circumstances are, and be able to talk along those lines, not just that they were victims of a homicide. So and when they agreed to do that, then I was all in. I was happy to hear that.

Biagio: For us, we’ve always felt like it’s so important to have both the law enforcement and the family on board to tell a story, because otherwise you might be telling a story a family doesn’t want to tell. That’s just too painful for them to tell. And it’s a it is a delicate conversation to have with certain families, because some people don’t want to tell their stories.

Pat Postiglione: I mean, absolutely, I mean, I’m familiar with families right now that they can I consider them by friends and they don’t want to relive that. They, they, they appreciate everything that the police department has done. They appreciate the fact that the bad guys in prison, but they don’t really want to relive it. I guess, you know, it’s almost, I guess, in their mind, literally reliving the crime. And and then having said that, there’s other there’s other families that do and they jump at the opportunity to be able to tell the story about their brother, sister or whatever. And they leap at that and they want to tell that story. And they do, and usually they do a very good job, you know, talking about the victims. But yeah, but there is a balance there, whether some families do want to do it and very eager to do it. And then there’s other families that really don’t want to go down that road again. And I completely get that. I completely understand that.

Joke: Well, you know, before we even got to the families, it was a it was quite the journey right from when we first started talking. And I think we Skyped, I think the first time. And then we flew out to Nashville, and then Biagio edited a tape together. And that process, I think, from when we first started talking to us, getting a network and in this case, being investigation is scary to say, okay, yes, let’s do the show I believe was close to nine months. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, maybe even a year. Did you was was that surprising to you that that’s kind of how long the process takes?

Pat Postiglione: Well, I mean, based on what you guys are telling me, I think I was thinking along those lines. You know, if you guys told me three years, I would have went with that because I really.

Biagio: I really.

Pat Postiglione: I really have no idea, you know, you know, I don’t I don’t know how the process works, but you guys told me it was a kind of a slow, painful process where you have to go through all these different things and that’s fine. You know, I mean, I mean, I’m here either way I was available and if and if the show went and that’s that’s great. And if it didn’t go then, then you guys did your best. And, you know, we just have to, I guess, move on from there. But but I was I guess I was I don’t want to say shock but but I was kind of shocked that they decided to pick up the show only because apparently, and you guys would know the numbers a whole lot better than me. Apparently, as I’ve learned over the last several months, there’s a lot of people pitching a lot of shows on a daily basis of true crime nature. So, you know, because you’re able to get a particular idea in there and a particular show and they say, hey, yeah, let’s let’s go ahead and run with this. You know, I mean, to me that’s an amazing thing, you know? And I, you know, you just don’t think that you’re going to be that 1 in 1,000,000, I guess. And then next thing you know, you know, you are. So, you know, I don’t know what happened to allow that to happen. But but, you know, here we are.

Joke: What was your family’s reaction when they found out you’re finally going to get a show on I.D.?

Pat Postiglione: They were, you know, they were incredibly supportive. You know, they were, you know, they were they were all over Facebook with that kind of thing. And they put out messages and and inviting people to watch, you know, and they’re putting in the when the promos came out, they were my daughter was putting the promos on Facebook, and they would just put them all over the place. And the response was incredible, you know, and they’re very supportive, you know, and, you know, and I’m, you know, that’s them. I’m not that kind of person where I don’t I kind of I kind of sit back and I don’t like all the attention. But having said that, I realized that that it’s a show that I’m involved and I get that. So how do you avoid the attention? I understand, but at the same time, at the same time, they’re very proud and very happy that, you know, for the families to, you know, over the years, you know, my kids grow up with me in homicide, literally from them being little babies. So they understand. You know what? You know what it took over the years, you know, for these cases to get made.

Joke: Yeah. Remember I would say, you know, it’s maybe now another like nine months ago, but after we found out that they were ready to go, you came out to Los Angeles to meet with the network. And it turned into we had dinner, which was supposed to be like a four person dinner, which ended up turning into like a 12 person tables kept getting added. Everyone from the network showed up. So excited to see you. What was that like?

Pat Postiglione: Well, I mean, the same thing. You know, I had no idea what to expect. I was relying totally on you guys and, you know, and you guys were showing me that this is this is all good and that kind of thing. And and I believe when Tim came to your office, he all of a sudden broke into, okay, let’s create a crime scene right here in the conference room. And next thing you know, one of the guys was pretending he was shot, and I was supposed to stand in the in the room and talk about a crime scene. So I and I did. I did what he asked me to do, and and then that evening, we all went out to Daniel, like you say, that it morphed into, I don’t know, a big 12 people, I guess, or something like that. And it was great. I mean, I met every one of them and they were very nice. And, you know, they’re very supportive, you know? So, so for me, I mean, it was it’s kind of a surreal experience, you know, being involved like this. But at the same time, you know, I appreciate what everyone’s done, you know, and the idea they been great. You guys have been fantastic. So no complaints.

Biagio: That’s that’s that’s that’s great. You know, it’s interesting. I just want to back up for one second. When our executive, Tim, did that with you in the conference room, I mean he surprised all of us. And honestly, he was really what he was doing. He was he was putting you on the spot to see, you know, where you were. You the real deal. I mean, he believed that you were they wouldn’t have bought the show. But I thought it was really amazing the way you just jumped right in you. And it was I didn’t feel like you were putting on an act or you were doing a monologue. You just were kind of living through the crime scenes you’ve seen over all these different years and pointing out what different clues could mean in this room. You know, you said something like, you know, I noticed the the lights are on, but it’s during the day so that this occur at night. And we were like, oh my gosh, he’s like pulling clues out of everything because that’s what you do. So I just I want to commend you because I think a lot of people in that situation would have freaked out. I was a little freaked out, honestly, because like, oh boy, we didn’t prepare for this, but you did great. Well.

Pat Postiglione: And but that’s exactly what I did, I really did I mean, I recall that moment and I recall just putting my hands in my pocket and just like you said, almost reliving a crime scene, going in there and looking at this as if it was an actual crime scene and what I would do inside of a crime scene, what I would observe, what I would look at, mental notes I would make, questions I would have and, you know, and that’s what I did. And hopefully he insisted that I think he did. You know, he seemed like like he did.

Joke: Definitely.

Biagio: Yeah, he definitely did. And actually, you bring up a really good point when you put your hand in your pockets, Tim was like, why? Why is this hands in his pockets? Was he just being like super casual? And do you remember what you remember what you said to him?

Pat Postiglione: Yeah. Well, I mean, for me, it became a habit over the years. If you don’t have latex gloves on, you don’t want to have your hands out there where you might contaminate something or touch something or obliterate a possible suspect fingerprint. So it makes perfect sense to keep your hands in your pockets and look around. Just look around, you know, with your eyes, and you make mental notes. And my hands stayed in my pockets all the time. There are occasions when I’ll have latex gloves on, and when I do do that, I can take my hands out of my pockets, of course, and I can look around a little more for you, but typically I keep my hands in my pocket just so I don’t contaminate anything on that crime scene.

Biagio: Well, it was a great little detail, and I think it’s one of the things that really sold the network on just how authentic you are is you were bringing these things that nobody would ever think of. You know this because for over 25 years you worked homicide. So.

Pat Postiglione: Right. No, no. That’s right. And you know and it’s I don’t want it’s kind of like tricks of the trade where you, you pick up certain things over the years and you realize what works for you personally. You know, with me, certain things work for me, like we’ve talked about. You know, I don’t take notes and I don’t necessarily write notes down inside of a crime scene. And that initially I did do all that. I did take notes. I did take notes when I interviewed people. I did have my hands out of my pockets. But I realized soon after I got into homicide that it’s better ways to do this and be and be more effective. And that’s what I began to do. And it worked for me. You know, it worked for me for many, many years. And that’s and that’s that’s what I went by.

Joke: So let’s get to your first day on set. What was that like when now all of a sudden there’s much bigger crew. Like you said, there’s a lot more people involved.

Biagio: Yeah. What’s that like, being a real person who’s never really been on a film set before. And now all of a sudden, you’re the center of attention of about 50 people? Yeah.

Pat Postiglione: No, I mean, you’re exactly right. That’s exactly what they say. And I’m not used to that, of course. And it was I don’t know, it’s kind of kind of set you back a little bit, you know, ten, sometimes ten people maybe involved. Aside from the person interviewing you, the camera guy, you got other guys in the background, you have other, other people running around doing things that I would never think about. You know, move that car, go get this car. Go do this. Go do that. What about this? I hear that noise. We have to stop the noise. Somebody making noise and all these things that never I’ve never encountered. You know, it’s just, you know, it just kind of blew me away, to be honest with you. And the first day of filming, you know, it was like that, you know, I. I’m okay. When he asked me the question and then I would respond to whatever the question was, we’d speak about whatever the victims, whatever the case may be, and then all those other things would happen. They would do different camera angles. And when I say different camera angles, I mean a lot of different camera angles in the front, in the back, on the side, all around, you know, and those things, I mean, I’ve never done before, but, you know, whatever they asked me to do, I realized that’s that’s how it works. And I understand that. And I did whatever they asked me to do, and they clearly knew what they were doing much more than me. So. So, no, I mean, it was fine. It was a little bit, you know, a little nervous, I guess maybe, but but it all worked out, you know, as time went on, I became more and more used to it. You know, I know the one big thing I learned about these crew is they really like to eat lunch. And I notice and I notice when it gets close to lunchtime, I noticed they all start getting a little shaky. So yeah, I just one thing I noticed they do not miss lunch and that’s great. Hey, I’m with them. I’m with them all the way so but but I did notice that about them. And that was, that was a good thing.

Biagio: Yeah. You know there’s a there’s an old saying in the film industry that your, your project is only as good as the food you feed your crew. And I think, well, I think you found that to be the case.

Pat Postiglione: I think that’s right. As we started getting closer to lunch, I noticed a couple of their legs started shaking and whatnot. So obviously we better we better feed these guys.

Biagio: So yeah.

Pat Postiglione: Yeah.

Joke: That’s awesome. That’s terrific. And then obviously, as you know, the star of the show, you’re also much more involved in the post-production process when, you know, we need to do some pickups and some ADR and some green screen. That was all new to you as well.

Pat Postiglione: Oh yeah. I’ve never done anything like that. When you told me green screen, I really had no clue what you meant by that, and you had to explain it to me. And once you explained it, of course it made perfect sense. You know, all the little shortcuts that you guys are able to do and make everything flow so smoothly. That’s how you do it. You know, all these little tricks and things that you guys do. So yeah, I mean, I was all in, but yeah, that was the green screen. And then, you know, bringing the same outfits and doing all that. And yeah, I mean it was all new to me, but you guys got me through it.

Joke: That’s awesome.

Biagio: Yeah. Well, you did great. You hopped right in and you didn’t let the Green Machine scare you, so that was pretty good. Yeah.

Joke: And then what was it like seeing it all come together for the first time? I know we sent you a screener, a cut for it. And now am I right in saying that you made your wife watch it first?

Pat Postiglione: Yeah, yeah. She did. She watched it first.

Biagio: Yeah, yeah.

Pat Postiglione: You know, I tell you the truth. And I don’t know if you’ve heard this before. It’s a different perspective for me. And I think maybe we’ve talked about this before. When I look at it, I see it differently than maybe when a casual observer might look at it. They may see it differently. You know what I mean? So. So that’s why I asked her to look at it as an unbiased observe, a kind of thing. And she did, and she thought it was great. And she told me she told me that as soon as it was over, she said she thought it was great. And then then I then I got the nerve and then I watched it, you know. But yeah, I mean, I thought it came out just great. You know, the first one I saw, it is a little intimidating, I think, to, to see yourself as you know, they call you the host of the show, you know, really not used to any of that stuff and you know, that that kind of thing kind of set me back a little bit. But hey, you know, but but I knew that going in so. So it’s all good.

Joke: Yeah. It’s a new experience. Right. So everything kind of feels new and. Yeah. Nervous. Nervous at first. And before you know it, you’re an old pro at it. Yeah. Speaking of, obviously the network was very excited about the show and they had you do a bunch of press. They did like a big photo shoot with you, and then you also got flown to New York for some press appearances on Doctor Oz and some other stuff. What what was that whole media experience like for you?

Pat Postiglione: Well, the good news is I have family up in New York. I have a brother, a younger brother who retired from NYPD. So he was up in that area. So the good news was when they did get up there, I would be able to see him and and his wife Mary, and my nephew, they were all in midtown, close to the area where I was staying. Now, the flip side is they said, hey, we need to fly you up to New York next week. And I said, okay, what’s going on? Well, you know, we’d like you to be on the Doctor Oz Show. I said, the doctor show. I said, where did this come from? And then they explained it to me, and that’s okay. You know, he does that true crime. And I think it was on Tuesdays. He does a true crime deal and he likes speaking with police and retired police and detectives about cases that they work on. So but yeah, Doctor Oz, I couldn’t make that connection initially. But then I realized that he does that true crime stuff. So yeah, that was a little, you know, going on doctor show. That’s a little nerve wracking. But the fact that it was, you know, it was recorded and then it would be shown later, it was a lot easier had it been live. I think it had been a whole lot different. But but but the good news was, yeah, I mean, I think it worked out and I think the better news was we were able to have Lisa Taylor on there, who was a victim of one of ours, who was the victim’s daughter of, of Gold Taylor. And it was so great to have her on the show and speak like she did. She was so happy to do it, and she really was. And, you know, I’ve known her for many years now since this homicide occurred. And she’s she’s an incredible person. She really is. She’s a she’s a wonderful person. I’m glad she was able to get on Doctor Oz and actually got the visit with some of her friends who were in the New York area.

Joke: Yeah, she was very eloquent. And she speaks well for her dad. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. So, yeah. So this kind of roller coaster experience, has it changed your life at all?

Pat Postiglione: No. Not really. I mean, you know, I’m me. I’m who I am. You know, I mean, no, it’s not going to change me at all. I mean, hopefully not. I don’t I don’t think so. I think I think.

Biagio: I think.

Joke: I’m not either. You’re awesome.

Pat Postiglione: Yeah. I think I’m the same person. Nothing. It’s not going to change me. That kind of thing doesn’t. I don’t know. You know, maybe it’s different. People react differently to it. But with me, it’s it’s kind of the same where I feel like I’m the same person. I don’t feel like I’ve changed at.

Biagio: All right now. Now. And I believe that 100%. But I would have to imagine at least a few things in your life are different since the show started airing. Can you talk about a couple of those? Well.

Pat Postiglione: I would say the biggest thing is messages I’m receiving from people that I’ve known for many, many years and I haven’t spoken with or communicated with. I mean, I consider them my friends, but I really haven’t communicated with them. And those people taking the time to send me positive messages about. I watched the show last night. Incredible. Good job. You know, I’m happy you’re able to get the families in there, and I’m getting all that stuff. And I got a lot of messages from people who I don’t know, and they were very positive and they spoke very highly of the show, and I don’t know why they reached out to me, but but I’m glad they did. And they told me that. And I responded, every single one of them. And you know, and other than that, I think, I mean, I’m not standing in Walmart and someone says, hey, don’t aren’t you the guy from. No, no, that that has not happened.

Biagio: Give it give it a couple of weeks. Yeah. We’re only on episode three. I have a feeling by the time we get through multiple seasons, you’re going to have a tough time shopping at Walmart. Okay? Yeah. Now, I mean, one thing that I think a lot of people who consider because, you know, a lot of people are approached about potentially doing a TV show or, you know, or think about what it would be like. But the fact is, I mean, you’re really exposing yourself on television. I mean, and I assume that must be at least challenging, you know, knowing that you’re the face of the show. Is that a lot of pressure?

Pat Postiglione: I mean, it’s a lot of pressure in terms of you wanting to do right. You want you want to do a good job and you wanting to do good by the families. And to me, that’s where the price of lies, you know, in terms of being the host of a show or being exposed like that, I don’t feel that pressure. Maybe it’s out there, but I’m just I’m just not saying it. But I don’t feel that pressure. The pressure I do feel like I said, is trying to do right by the families and trying to do a good job on the show. That’s that’s where I feel the pressure.

Joke: Has anybody else reached out to you about their case? Because we know from a lot of retired police on television that people always want them to look at their cases or their family’s cases.

Pat Postiglione: I mean, actually, yeah, I’ve had people reach out to me even before the show started. I’ve had people reaching out to me from as far away as a Washington state, asking to look at this case or that case. I had a woman, for example, contacted me about her sister that was killed from Ohio, and she was killed in the 1960s. And she sent she literally sent me the entire case file. And I went through the entire case file, and I was able to give her a bunch of advice and some, some questions, and and she gave them to the police and apparently they reopened the case. So so that’s good. So yeah. If anybody. No, no. Well, I take that back. Someone did contact me as a result of the show, and I’m actually it’s a it’s a local case. And I am actually looking at it because they asked me to. And it’s a case that, as it turns out, I was familiar with because someone else had asked me to look at it from the DA’s office. And so then this family member saw the show and reached out to me and said, she’s she’s known me over the years just through the cases we’ve been involved in. And she asked me if I would be so kind as to look at this case. And anybody that asked me to look at the case, you know, I have no problem doing that. I may not be able to solve the case, but I may be able to give some suggestions or some advice that maybe the police department could use. Or I’ll be glad to talk to the police, to the police department. I have no problem, particularly if it’s a cold case that’s been unsolved, you know, 20 or 30 years. You know, what’s the harm? You won’t do any harm speaking with anybody.

Joke: Yeah, exactly. And you’ve solved quite a few. We didn’t get to cover any of the cold cases really in season one yet, but you were able to close quite a few cold cases in Nashville.

Pat Postiglione: Well, yeah. You know the cold case unit in Nashville, it started in 2002, and it worked out of the DA’s office up to about 2005, and it was probably between 15 and 25 cold cases solved during that window. And then from 2005 to my retirement in 2013, we created what they called homicide Unit, where I had a one time seven detectives working full time on cold cases and myself. And then that that went down to five detectives working on cold cases, two detectives working on missing persons, as you know, sometimes become homicides. So we were able to resolve approximately 55, 56 cases during that 2005 to 2013 window. So, yeah, I mean, you bring a lot of a lot of closure to families. And, you know, my experience has been you contact the family who has not heard from the police in some cases 20, 25 years. You got to be careful with that because you don’t want to give them any false hope. But at the same time, you want to give them hope, at least to let them know that we’re looking into this case and we know what the new technology out there, you know, we solved a little Marshall Tremble, nine year old girl selling Girl Scout cookies because of DNA. We had another homicide case and we had some DNA. In that case, we were able to match the DNA from the two cases, and we were able to ultimately identify the suspect. But that case set for 32 years unsolved. So luckily we were able to solve that through through DNA advancements and just through persistence from different detectives. Yeah.

Biagio: Wow. So I think we just have one final question, really, and I’m not sure, you know, that she’ll have an answer, but I want to ask anyways because a lot of a lot of people listening, you know, would like to be where you are in some way or another now. So if someone else, whether a police officer or a chef or a carpenter or a restaurant owner, you know, anybody is about to become a TV personality or thinking about it, what advice would you have for them?

Pat Postiglione: I think the biggest thing is, is to be yourself. Don’t don’t let you know if if some people want to call you. I don’t want to say celebrity or something along those lines. Don’t buy into the hype. I guess. You know, just just be yourself. And I think if you if you remain yourself because that’s what got you there to begin with. I think, I think that’s the best way to handle it and just be who you are and don’t let anyone change you. That’s I mean, that’d be the advice I would give. That’s that’s what I tell myself anyway.

Joke: And that’s why we love you, Pat.

Biagio: It really is. You’ve been such a joy to work with. You know, from the very beginning, when we were just joking, Biagio out of nowhere, saying we can find you a TV show to, you know, me and you doing, you know, audio pickups over the phone, you know, and you’re sending them our way and, you know, all the way to to to things like today. I just think, you know, for anybody listening, you know, the real takeaways here, whether you’re a producer or whether you want to be on camera, is a lot of the things Pat said. You need to be yourself. You need to know your craft. This goes whether it’s you or whether you’re a producer looking at potential talent. These are the things you need to think about. And Pat, I mean, you check every box because in the true crime world, there’s very few detectives who have the solve rate and the number of cases and the experience that you have. So thank you so much for trusting us to tell your stories. Fingers crossed that we’re going to be doing many seasons together. We’ve done terrific in the ratings so far. So knock on wood, let’s let’s just hang in there for the next three weeks and then hopefully season two is just around the corner. Thanks for.

Pat Postiglione: Hanging out with me for the last 30 minutes.

Biagio: Oh my gosh. Our pleasure Pat. Thank you so much. This was great. Have a great day. Take care. Bye bye bye you two. Bye bye. Producing Unscripted with Joke and BiagioAjo.