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Announcer: Welcome to Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.
Angry Man: Is this some kind of joke.
Confused Woman: Biagio-WHO???
Biagio: This episode. It’s episode 71 and we’ve got five practical tips to help you make TV pilots the art, science, sweat and fatigue you’ll need on every TV pilot you make. What you need to know about TV network executives when making TV pilots. Remembering the Golden rule. And it’s not what you think it is. What socks and underwear have to do with any of this, and why me and joke are so freaking loopy right now. Here’s a hint we just shot a TV pilot. Music courtesy Dave Pelman music Dave Pearlman. Com hey everybody. She’s joke, he’s Biagio. We’re married. We make unscripted film and television and want to help you do the same.
Joke: Hopefully by teaming up with us.
Biagio: Okay. Warning, warning. Danger. Will Robinson, me and joke are a little loopy. Oh.
Joke: I don’t know what you mean.
Biagio: Yes, that was my wife yawning. Why are we so exhausted? Well, we just came off of shooting. And by the way, we’re very we’re very happy and feel very lucky to have just come off of shooting a huge television pilot, big format show we had. I mean, I mean, between manned cameras and hidden cameras, I think we had close to 40 cameras. I really can’t say much else than that. And whether we’ll ever be able to tell you what this TV pilot is remains to be seen. But having just come off of shooting all week weekend around the clock, we thought this would be a great time to deal with something. We get asked about a lot, which is making TV pilots. Are you yawning again?
Joke: Sorry.
Biagio: It’s okay. I’m gonna be yawning too. So you know, listen, making TV pilots is part arts, part science, 100% sweat and fatigue. Especially if you’re the executive producer and, you know, in our business, being the executive producer on a TV show, I think is similar to being a director in feature film, you are the chief creative visionary for the project. You’re also in charge of every aspect of the project and making sure it gets executed.
Joke: And you’re liable in case anything goes wrong.
Biagio: We have for other thing, when you own a TV company, you sign a nice little piece of paper for the network that says, yep, if anything at all happens, I will go bankrupt so that the network who has ass loads of money, doesn’t have to pay a dime, and the little guy takes it on the chin. What that really means is you better be darn good at what you do to make sure that you don’t make any mistakes, and you don’t bankrupt yourself along the way. Or, you know, what really happens is you don’t go back to the network and say, listen, we need a little bit more money. Can you help us out? If you can avoid doing that, you’re in much better shape.
Joke: Yeah. I think the scariest thing I heard this weekend from our executive at the network was, I’m so glad you indemnified us.
Biagio: Yeah, we’re like, yeah, I bet you are. Needless to say, it’s a very.
Joke: Ambitious.
Biagio: Very ambitious over the top pilot that we were proud to get to make. So that said, we want to get into some practical tips. And actually I sat down and we really forced ourselves to come up with five useful, practical tips because we’re so tired right now and we’re so out of our freaking minds. And if we didn’t come up with five useful tips, this would probably just be 25 minutes of us blathering, which could be entertaining or not. But this way at least, no matter what happens, you’re going to walk away with some things that will help you next time you go out to shoot a TV pilot, whether it’s for a TV network, a studio, or it’s something that you have decided to fund yourself. Now I want to go ahead and say, we’re going to mention some links to other posts and podcasts that will help you. The show notes for this episode will be at Producing Unscripted 71 because this is 71. So whatever links I mentioned in the in the podcast and I just head on over to producing on 71 and you’ll be able to get to them. So that said, five practical tips for shooting pilots. Let’s start with tip number one.
Joke: Talk to your network executive early and often.
Biagio: This is crucial.
Joke: Here’s the thing. The whole thing about a pilot is you’re trying to get picked up for series. No one really makes money in pilots. There are a lot of hard work, and you know, they’re great for figuring things out and learning from mistakes that hopefully then you won’t make in series. But yeah, it’s it’s really all about getting it picked up to series. And so therefore you want the network to be happy with your pilot. If the network is happy with your pilot, it obviously increases your chance of getting a green light. To series something else. You have to understand the pilot process forces you and the executive to really think about the show and where, in a sales pitch, you are pitching a particular vision, you don’t really know what they’re responding to in that vision until you starting to make the show as a pilot or a series. And so it’s important to kind of find out which parts of your pitch they really were in love with, which part of your pitch they kind of could care less about, or which parts they absolutely want nothing to do with. And so it becomes a creative conversation. I won’t say battle, but because again, you want the show picked up. So it becomes a conversation about how to make the show that you still love and that you can still be passionate about, while also giving yourself the best shot at getting a pickup at that. Executives network networks have a lot of different chefs in the kitchen at different times, so it’s important to know who you’re talking to in the in the hierarchy and to, you know, talk to them often about everybody else’s ideas and stuff like that. One of the things you’ll notice is that network executives are extremely busy people, because your project is not the only project they’re working on. And so it’s important to be discreet. We’ll I think last week I must have made, I don’t know, 100 phone calls, emails, just literally saying, squeaky wheel here. Can I have your approval on something? So it’s just really important that you get a whole bunch of this stuff signed off on before you spend the money. You know, again, this is a big format show. So in terms of art, set design, you know, camera, look, all of that stuff, casting in particular, you don’t want them to show up on set and go, wait, what? I haven’t seen any of this. I haven’t approved any of this because they will make you change it and it will cost you time and money. So, yeah, talk to them often and early.
Biagio: That was very well said. Joke. I’m so amazed that you’re so tired, yet so lucid.
Unidentified Voice: Okay. Thank you.
Biagio: You’re welcome. You know, in a nutshell, just remember, the network is your client. Make your client happy. Now, if you’re one of the brave, crazy souls who’s decided for some insane reason to fund your own TV pilot, the following rules will help you as well. Just remember, it’s usually a bad idea to make your own TV pilot. Now again, if you head over to the show notes for this episode producing unscripted seven one, I’m going to have links further that that will further explain why you should or should not make your own TV pilot. I do think the rest of the tips in today’s podcast will help you. And also this. Tip number one talk to your network early and often. If, God forbid, you’ve decided to take some fools money to make a TV pilot who knows nothing about television, but things are going to invest in a TV pilot. Make sure you talk to them early and often as well. Just remember the golden rule, the one with the gold rules. In this case, that’s the person paying for your TV show. Okay, moving on to tip number two know when to be flexible and when not to.
Joke: And this one’s easier said than done.
Biagio: Way easier said than done.
Joke: And it’s, you know, the the question that keeps you up at night or at least keeps me up at night sometimes. Where, okay, do I give in to them on some creative do we fight for this one? Do we? You know, is this something that that doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things? Or is it something that could drastically change everything? So I think that’s it’s a big one. It’s also important to keep that in mind on the smaller details. Right. So, you know, just again, thinking about the pilot we just shot this weekend. You know, you may have a specific color palette in mind or a specific couch or chair or table as part of the set design. And, you know, your art director, your set director, your production designer comes to you and was like, well, you know, I can do this, but, you know, I have an alternate option here. And you’re like, well, in the grand scheme of things, you know, your option is just fine too. And by being flexible, you save yourself a lot of time and money if you were lucky enough. And again, this only really applies to format shows. Not so much docu series, but if you’re lucky enough to be able to do a rehearsal show, which we had planned and budgeted for, it’s important to be flexible about everything from the format to, you know, style to different things. We we learned a lot on our Friday tech rehearsal shoot, and there were a few things that we changed that we were flexible with based on the things that we learned. So it’s hard when you’re tired and you’re delirious at eight in the morning and you haven’t slept in 30 hours, but it’s important to focus and talk it through again with your network executive, with your fellow collaborators, and to to also really listen to your to your crew. There were certain changes that we made because crew members came to us and said, hey, I observed X, is that something you want? And we’re like, actually know what is your solution? You know, when they would come up with certain things and we, you know, pick the solutions we thought were best and implemented them. And we got a much better show out of it on Saturday night. So again, be flexible. No one to and know when. It’s just like, no. This is something that we need to stick with and trust that, you know, by doing it again, or maybe with different casts, it’ll end up being better.
Biagio: Yeah. And you know what? Being flexible. It also takes confidence in yourself as an artist here I want to point out, you know, we changed a few format beats based on a conversation we had right there with a really big executive from the network who came out and was observing and said, hey, you guys, I’m a little worried about this. What do you think? And, you know, there’s two responses you can have in a moment like that. You can freak out and be like, oh my God, this Monday person wants to change my vision for the show. Or you can be like, oh my God, they don’t like what I’m doing. Oh crap. Maybe I’m not good enough. Or you can be like, hey, I hear what you’re saying. Let’s work together to solve it. I think you can tell from my attitude that that third choice is the best, and that’s exactly how we handled our conversation with the network executive. She made some very good points. She offered some suggestions. We agreed with some suggestions we didn’t agree with, but the suggestions we didn’t agree with. Rather than just saying no, we had a conversation and then came to a decision. I wouldn’t even call it a compromise. I’ll call it a collaborative, a collaborative decision that we all felt good about. And then we put those changes into effect for the following days. Shoot, that takes confidence. You have to believe in yourself to know that you can make the changes, and you also have to feel confident enough to have that conversation with the person who’s paying for your pilot, you know? And I feel really good about the way we handle those conversations. I’ve seen, honestly, you know, coming up over the years, I’ve seen other people who were above us when we were just starting out, have much more contentious conversations, and it’s just not our style. So I suggest you always embrace those conversations when possible. All right. Moving on to tip number three.
Unidentified Voice: Hire good people.
Joke: That this may be the most important rule probably in life. But it’s also.
Biagio: That’s a life rule I love that. Hire good people in life in general.
Joke: I mean, right, because any job, you know, why are you going to hire a gardener? That’s no good. And you’re going to be mad about the gardener. So, you know, if you’re lucky enough to have a gardener. I think the main thing about this one, though, again, is so much easier said than done, because hiring is probably the hardest part of what I consider our job. But man, when you have a great team, it just makes everything so much better. Obviously, I do believe that leadership plays a big role because you will set the tone as the producer for your crew if they see you slacking off, good luck inspiring them to do their best work. So, so yeah, so it’s important to lead by example. But hiring has become something of an art and a gut instinct. It is. Resumes are great and references. Sure help, but we’ve been burned by both so many times that it really comes down to can you communicate with this person? Do you feel like they’re listening? Do you feel like they will be able to add something? And so that’s that’s really kind of the overall thing. And sometimes you have to settle because there’s, there’s, you know, you hired a best person you could find at that moment. We were lucky enough this weekend that we got to bring a lot of our trusted, you know, coworkers back, that we’ve worked with our core team or all people that we never worked with before, and they were able to bring in other people that they had worked with. But we hadn’t, but they trusted. And I must say, top to bottom, it was an absolute delight. So, you know, which which was great for us because now we got to meet new people, new heads of different departments that we never worked with before that we would absolutely bring back. So. So yeah, hiring good people, man. If it wasn’t for that, I don’t know how I would have made it through this weekend.
Biagio: Yeah for sure. And listen, I think, you know, we we have a few rules that we try to stick by. Again, as joke pointed out, you can’t really trust resumes. And unfortunately, a lot of times you can’t even trust recommendations because you don’t know why someone’s giving you a recommendation. So it kind of has to be a gut thing for us. We try to have a know a whole rule, like, I just don’t want to hire people that are that we think are going to have a bad attitude or they have had bad attitudes on past shoots. This is just too hard of a job. And honestly, if you don’t have a can do attitude, then I have a do not want to work with you attitude. I also think that I try to hire smart people and someone may be less experienced, but if they’re really smart and they they seem to have an aptitude and a desire to learn, I will hire them over somebody with a lot more experience who has a bad attitude, as I pointed out. You know, and I also just think in general, you want to you want to hire people that you want to be in the trenches with. You go out to shoot a TV pilot. It is like a battle. Same thing for TV series. I mean, you’re in the trenches. It’s long hours, you know, it’s people. Tempers will occasionally flare. People get tired, people get hungry. We’re all working hard. You want to be there with people. You feel like I’m going to have a good attitude because it just again, I know, I know, I’m repeating myself, but it’s just too dang hard to make television and then work with someone who’s a pain in the butt. It just is. Sorry, are you old curmudgeon out there or you young curmudgeon? I don’t like to work with curmudgeon, all right? I just sounded like a curmudgeon there. Isn’t that ironic? Boy, I just thought, like, I got the worst attitude ever. Well, we are going on no sleep, but that’s why I, you know, my general good and even my general good attitude. You go out the window in harsh circumstances. So. All right, moving on to tip number four. Design appropriate look and style for your show. Now listen, this is an artistic thing. This is also a technical thing. And it’s funny because I actually see a lot of new young producers make them make this mistake. But you can’t design like a really specific style for a TV show when that style won’t fit it. For example, you’re not going to put together a really gorgeous tripod, you know, look for a show where you have long lenses and shallow depth of field. If you’re shooting an action show like Alaska State Troopers, it’s just not going to work, and yet will often see people who want to put together these incongruous styles like, you can’t be running around with a camera on your shoulder, you know, in shooting an action show. And it also goes, oh, this should really be a long lens and shallow depth of field and really pretty like it just doesn’t work. You need to support your show with a style that works. You also got to think about choosing appropriate technology for your show. You know, cameras that you used and loved even 2 or 3 years ago may not be the best camera anymore. You have to stay on top of that technology, and if you can’t do it, you have to hire somebody who can tell you. Hey, you want to use these cameras? And here’s why. You know, again, like on this show, we had close to 40 cameras. We had a lot of different cameras that we were mixing and matching. We had to make sure that they were going to work together in post. We had to make sure that the different codecs, we’re going to mesh well inside of our chosen editing platform, which as many of you know as Adobe Premiere, and, and we had to make sure that that that technology was going to hold up during the rigors of a shoot that was going to go all night where nothing could go wrong. So again, you can’t just, you know, willy nilly choose a camera because you think it’s cool or it’s the flavor of the month. You have to make sure it’s going to do the job you need for your show. Another important thing to think about is you need to go look at TV, and you need to figure out what shows you know in any way that have any similarity to yours either succeeded or failed, and why you need to diagnose what was working about shows that are similar to what you’re doing and listen, the show we’re doing right now on its own, it’s very different from anything that’s aired before. There’s been very little on television that is exactly like our show, but there are elements of our show that have been in numerous other TV shows. And so you go and you look and say, what worked about this element on this show, what failed about it on another show? And you try to learn from that, both from a creative standpoint and a technical standpoint, and you can learn. You really got to do your homework because that homework and those observations are going to help you make the show unique, make it strong and give you the best chance at success. Joke. Anything you’d like to add?
Joke: No, I think you got that one covered.
Biagio: Oh, thanks, honey, I’m so happy I could contribute something to this podcast because you’ve just been killing it so far. I’ve just been here, sitting here going, man, I’m so tired, I don’t even know how she’s talking. All right, moving on to tip number five. And perhaps the most apropos one for how we’re feeling. You must prepare yourself mentally and physically.
Joke: Yeah. Again, this one is easier said than done.
Biagio: Way easier said than done.
Joke: I mean, here’s the thing, right? So we knew we were going to be really busy three nights, as in like wouldn’t be home overnight. Babysitters are not the easiest to come by. So called in the grandparents. And and so it goes everything from, you know, finding childcare to really trying to plan out your meals. Although that only goes so far. Stocking up on caffeine this huge. Also, you know, if your, your schedule is going to be wonky, figuring out the best time to wake up, you know, because normally if going into an office might take you X amount in in, you know, time in the car because of traffic, but if all of a sudden you’re going to be on set at a different time, different day, it’s important to look and see what you know, what your scheduled commute could possibly be, I think, is Google maps has a great thing. You can literally say what time of the day you need to make the, you know, the the trip, and it’ll tell you the average drive time at that time. So, it’s little things like that. It’s, you know, figuring out that if you’re going to be out of commission for X amount of days, like doing your laundry the weekend before or, you know, stocking up in the fridge weekend before, if normally you’d be doing errands. Wow. I’m really like sharing a lot of personal stuff here.
Biagio: Listen, you haven’t yet. You haven’t yet mentioned the fact that I just go out and buy extra underwear because I know I’m going to need it. I mean, this little things like that. Socks and underwear, man, you can never have enough of those when you’re in production. But as a matter of fact, listen, we talked about this a while ago. If you Google seven weird tips to Survive production, you’ll find a post we wrote. I’ll also link to it in the show notes for today, but you’ve got to think about yourself, especially if you’re the executive producer. Like, you have to figure out how you’re going to physically survive production. And I’m not saying that you’re putting your life in danger by making a show, but I’m saying that if you don’t think about these things, you’re going to get sick. You know, like like me, like I tried really hard to think about my diet and what I was going to eat while we’re filming this weekend. I failed miserably because I gained 6 pounds, but at least I thought about it at a time. So, you know, maybe I would have gained 15 pounds. I don’t know, I.
Joke: Lost 2 pounds.
Biagio: So impressive, honey. So impressive. I don’t know how you did it. We had we had really good craft service. I just couldn’t avoid it. But. But anyways. The point is, is you’re going to have to stop and think about just how your life is going to is going to continue. You’ve got to keep paying your bills. You’ve got to make sure that your life deadlines are met. And I think it’s so easy, especially when you first start out in this business, just to throw yourself into your work and completely forget about yourself again. Google seven Weird Tips to survive production or just look at producing unscripted 071 where you’ll find the show notes for today, and I’ll have links to these and a bunch more things that are going to help you. But there you go. These are five practical, usable tips that you can that you can actually take advantage of next time you find yourself shooting a TV pilot again, whether it’s for a TV network studio or whether you’re one of the brave slash crazy souls who for some reason have decided to make a TV pilot yourself, these tips will definitely help you. Joke. Anything else you’d like to add?
Joke: No, those are good.
Biagio: Those are good. So there you go. As you know, I joke, and I own a joke. Productions, a reality TV documentary and unscripted television production company. And we actually do allow people to submit shows to us through our portal. If you’re one of those people that are looking to break into television and think you might like to team up with the two of us and one of your concepts, it couldn’t be easier to get started. All you need to do is head on over to Producing Unscripted. Sign up for the newsletter and follow the directions. I will tell you, just because it’s easy to get started doesn’t mean it’s easy to actually team up with us. We’re very selective, but the whole reason we have this podcast and we and we keep the the blog in the, in the podcast that producing unscripted is so that we can tell you exactly the kind of people we like to work with, the kind of projects we like to team up on, and how you can best position your pitch not only to impress us, but to impress anyone you find yourself pitching to. So, you know, if you’re looking to break in the business, make sure to sign up for the newsletter at producing. Com and hopefully sometime soon we’ll be making television pilots together. So that’s it. We’ll be back in two weeks, hopefully with more useful information. Or at least, you know, you can have fun laughing at me and joke in our delirious states. So that’s it. Thank you so much for tuning in. Until next time.
Unidentified Voice: Bye bye.
Biagio: She was yawning. Okay. Bye everybody. Thanks again.
Announcer: Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.
