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Announcer: Welcome to Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.
Angry Man: Is this some kind of joke.
Confused Woman: Biagio-WHO???
Biagio: This episode. It’s episode 48 and we’re giving you three steps to win the Hollywood numbers game. What you need to know about the word no. The one thing you must do immediately after submitting a project, what Thomas Edison has to do with any of this, and what the heck leads us to this? I will give you that. Our kids are more priceless than those dudes we know in Guatemala. Music courtesy Dave Pelman music Dave Pelman. Hey everybody. She’s joke, he’s Biagio. We’re married. We make unscripted film and television and want to help you do the same, hopefully.
Joke: By teaming up with us.
Biagio: All right, so first of all, a big thank you to all of you who opened our email. Quick favor from joke and Biagio, there was a lot of you and I really appreciate it. You, as you know, were the first to know about our new free resource, how to Pitch a reality show. This is a free 10,000 word yes. Count them. 10,000 word guide, also available as a 50 page PDF that gives you everything you need to know to start pitching unscripted television shows, documentary series, and reality TV. And I just want to take one second to thank my wife. Oh yes, she put up with me, forcing the two of us to work on that for almost a month, many nights where we literally fed the kids, put them in the bed, and I said, okay, we gotta start on the next section. Honey, I drove you a little bonkers, right?
Joke: It’s a little bit.
Biagio: A little bit, a little bit bonkers. But that’s how much we love all of you. And so I have to say, I’ve been so grateful with how many of you have retweeted it, have shared it, have helped us get the guide out there again. It’s totally free and really we just want to save you time. We just want people to stop taking bad web advice on how to pitch shows and and just take advice that we have picked up from actually pitching and selling shows over the years. And, you know, and we’re telling you, hey, this is exactly what we like to hear when people pitch to us. So hopefully it’s really helpful. And like I said, I’m indebted to you always. Joe, thanks for helping me get it done.
Joke: I mean, I did give birth to two of your children. So, you know, I don’t think my work here was was that much deserving of your of your debt.
Biagio: Listen, the kids are great, but this book, this book is phenomenal.
Joke: Okay, good to know.
Carnival Barker: Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, step right up for your chance to win.
Biagio: All right, so moving on to the topic of today’s podcast, Three Steps to Win the Hollywood Numbers Game. And I think this is especially a good time to talk about it giving that we’ve just put out this guide about pitching us shows. And you know, the fact of the matter is, you know, that hand in hand with pitching any creative project, I don’t care if you’re writing screenplays, if you’re pitching TV shows, if you’re out there. How can a web series, whatever you know, it’s a simple fact that in Hollywood and I mean in life, really everything is a numbers game. I mean, it is the more you play, the better your chances of winning.
Joke: No. That’s true. Obviously, the advice is not just about selling a lot of shows. It’s also really about not driving other people crazy. When you’re trying to build a career or your spouse.
Biagio: Or your spouse. I mean, listen, it’s honestly goodness truth. And I mean this in the bottom of my heart. If you don’t treat Hollywood like you’re playing a game and enjoy the actual playing of it, you’re going to lose your mind, go crazy, and turn into a really bitter tyrant. I don’t know how else to put it, but.
Joke: Also, neither of us claim this is easy.
Biagio: This is probably the hardest advice we’ll ever give, and you’ll see we’re going to go through these steps and they’re going to sound simple. But you know what? They’re hard because we struggle with them. And that’s why we wanted to do this podcast today.
Joke: So that we can listen to it.
Biagio: So we can listen to it and take our own advice.
Joke: I like it, I like it.
Biagio: All right. So step number one, you actually have to play the numbers game. And this is something that we preach. One idea is not enough. It doesn’t matter how good your idea is. This goes back to some of our earliest podcasts. Your odds of getting interest in any single show you pitch are slim. I mean, joke 1 in 100.
Joke: God, I wish it was the case.
Biagio: I mean, that’s probably generous when you’re first starting out.
Joke: But, you know, some people are just like, hey, here’s another idea where maybe one in the thousand.
Biagio: Well, and you know how we feel about ideas, right? I mean, a joke. We talked about this in our last podcast, part of the Soft Pitch. Yeah. No, we’re talking about good pitches. We’re talking about like, you flush something out, you’ve pitched it. Every show is a long shot. And so you’ve got to play the game. You’ve got to get your at bats. So you have a shot of actually selling your shows. All right.
Joke: That was a sports metaphor, right?
Biagio: Yeah. Because you know what a macho guy I am. Nothing says sports like Biagio.
Joke: What? I think that’s a manly name.
Biagio: Well, you know, I was. Most people don’t know this about me. I was actually, I was actually a wow.
Joke: That was like a, like softball.
Biagio: It was like I was actually a star basketball player. I could still outshoot most average basketball players. I’m not bad. What do.
Joke: You want to do? Is known Biagio for longer than ten minutes. They’ve heard this story.
Biagio: Probably. I was really good in eighth grade. I was, I was amazing. Saint column, kill knights. Look out! All right. So.
Joke: Okay, so there you go. Play the numbers game.
Biagio: Play the numbers game. So moving on to step number two. Fill your pipeline. All right, look this is probably the best advice I can give you after pitching any project, especially something you’ve worked hard on, you’ve sculpted to perfection. You couldn’t wait to hand it off immediately. Move on to your next project. I mean immediately, because the fact of the matter is, you’re never more out of control than once your pitch is in the world. There’s nothing you can do. Yes, you can politely follow up. You can check in to see if people are going to move forward with your pitch. But the honest of God’s truth is the rest of the world moves at their own pace. Your pitch is living in a bureaucracy somewhere. It’s stuck in a thousand development meetings. There’s a hundred departments that need to consider it. Once out of your hands, it can be a long time until you hear anything back. I mean, we have picked shows that have gotten picked up two years later. I’m not even exaggerating. Right?
Joke: Nope.
Biagio: Two years. One show. They actually bought it. We didn’t shoot for 412 days. And I will put a link to that to that blog post, because that was unbelievable. And that’s just when, you know, they like.
Joke: Your shots after the green light.
Biagio: Yeah, that was after the green light. So the thing is that can drive you barkers. You will go out of your mind if once you hand off a project, you’re literally just waiting to see if that project is going to go, you just got to put it out of your mind. Okay. Yes, it’s good practice, good business practice to occasionally politely follow up. But those follow ups are not going to make the difference in whether or not your project moves forward. And that’s hard to deal with. I mean, we still have a hard time sitting around waiting to hear if our shows are getting picked up.
Joke: Oh my goodness. It’s it’s it’s heartbreaking sometimes because there’s such momentum and you’re going out and you’re pitching and you’re like, yes, that was a great meeting. And like three weeks later you’re like, really? You haven’t shown it to your boss. Like when you guys get together already.
Biagio: I mean, listen, the and honest to goodness, the way that we stay sane is that we have a full pipeline. We have a lot of projects, and we move on to the next one, and we get just as excited about those as the one we just finished. And that’s how you stay sane. And I assure you, if you don’t do this, you will drive everybody in your life, both professional and personal. Crazy. So fill your pipeline joke. There’s nothing I love more than filling your pipeline. I don’t joke production.
Joke: That’s just.
Biagio: The joke productions pipeline. What? What did you think I meant?
Joke: Nothing.
Biagio: Okay, moving at number three. Don’t get derailed by rejection. And yes, this by far is the hardest one. And I’m not just paying lip service to this. It’s easy to go out and say, oh, don’t get derailed by rejection. Don’t let rejection get you down. But honestly, rejection still kills me and I’m not afraid to admit it. I would go so far as to say joke does not love rejection herself.
Joke: I mean, who does? Really?
Biagio: Nobody. Nobody. So the fact of the matter is that in this business, no is the norm. For Mark Burnett. No is the norm for A-list Hollywood directors. No is the norm. Everybody who works in this business hears know far more than they hear. Yes. You don’t see that celebrated Entertainment Weekly. You don’t read about that in the trades. You don’t hear how hard you know so and so. Big time filmmaker has been working just to get his project made. And all the knows he got along the way and all his or her other projects. But the fact of the matter is no is ordinary and it’s yes, that’s unexpected and that’s why you have to enjoy the game.
Joke: Can I be honest?
Biagio: Yes.
Joke: This is turning into a real depressing podcast, even for me.
Biagio: No, but it’s not. Because you know what? By talking through it, you can get your head to a place where you truly enjoy the development process and you enjoy the people you meet. Listen for me, every single time we do a new video pitch, or we do a new pilot or we do a new presentation, I’m meeting new people. I’m trying new filmmaking techniques. You know, we’re trying out a new piece of editing software or a brand new plug in, or it’s an excuse to try some cool 3D or CG. That’s awesome. All right. And when you can learn to enjoy the process of development, when you can truly get something out of your pitches, when you can make friends all around the world that will last you a lifetime, that you can call up 20 years from now and be like, hey, I’m, you know, I’m coming back to Guatemala. Can we connect? Which really happened to us, by the way. You know, like, you can’t you can’t buy that kind of life experience. And that’s what I’ve learned to take away from the development process. You know, for me, I’m building a lifetime of memories. And every single project gives me more of that. I mean, what’s more priceless than that?
Joke: My children.
Biagio: Yes, our children are more priceless than that. I will give you that. I will give you that. Our kids are more priceless than those dudes we know in Guatemala. But you get what I’m saying, people.
Joke: Our love.
Biagio: Our love? Yes. Our love. Okay. Professionally, people. You know what I’m talking about.
Joke: Oh, yes. Yes. I’m just trying to keep a light because someone might listen to this podcast and go, why would I even do this?
Biagio: Well, you know, that’s a really good question. I mean, if you listen to this podcast and you go, why would I even do this? Maybe you shouldn’t because you have to be a little bit crazy to work in this business, whether it’s reality TV or independent film or, you know, I mean, even the web, I mean, how many people think they’re going to make a viral video and then six people watch it, you know, it’s listening. But listen, the good news is.
Joke: Is it because it’s Monday night.
Biagio: I think it’s Monday night, this podcast is due and we’re a little loopy.
Joke: But like four more days to go until the next weekend?
Biagio: Yes. So I think what I’m trying to say is don’t get derailed by rejection and just enjoy the process along the way.
Joke: So wrap it up. Really, this entire podcast comes down to this. It’s about the journey, not the destination.
Biagio: Well said, well said.
Joke: And I don’t I don’t know if Doctor Sousa for said anything close to it.
Biagio: Doctor Seuss is 111 years young as we reported this, and I.
Joke: Feel like in his book, oh, the Places You’ll Go, he probably says something very poignant to this fact.
Biagio: He does, he does. I think that the book ends. It’s something like.
Joke: Don’t get derailed.
Biagio: It’s it literally says, don’t go insane. Play the Hollywood numbers game. What? What? Doctor Seuss. He had it right on the head. So to wrap things up, three ways to win the Hollywood numbers game. Number one, play the game. You have to get enough at bats to hit a home run. Number two, fill your pipeline. Make sure you have a new project. Move on to the second you submit your current project so you don’t go crazy waiting for an answer. And number three, don’t get derailed by rejection. As Thomas Edison once said, every wrong step discarded is another step forward. I think he was a masochist, but hey, he was probably right. So that’s it for episode 48.
Joke: I apologize for Lupinus.
Biagio: We’re trying to keep it light, trying to keep it light. So be sure to check out our free guide How to Pitch a Reality Show.
Joke: For the record, this was the topic of choice, and anyone who knows Biagio is super positive. Guy is probably like what?
Biagio: I think this was a positive podcast.
Joke: Okay, okay, it’s paper positive.
Biagio: Listen, just keep in mind if anything in this podcast sounded like a downer to you, me and joke have been working in this business for a long time. We were two kids who started in a one bedroom apartment with no credits, no Hollywood connections. Jokes from Belgium. I’m from Cleveland. We knew nobody. Now we have a 7000 square foot facility, over 100 hours of television made by the two of us and some wonderful crew members and the rest of our team. So, you know, that just goes to show that you really can make it in this business by taking this advice. All right. So that’s it for episode 48. Be sure to check out our free guide, How to Pitch a Reality Show, which you can get from the front page of Producing Unscripted. Please share it with all your friends and if you are a blogger, please write a blog post about it and let us know. We promise that we will promote your post all over our social media channels. And all right, that’s it. We’re going to get back to winning the Hollywood numbers game, right? Joke.
Joke: Oh, yeah. No. Trust me. We’re playing it. We’re playing. You know, listen, you can’t win if you don’t play. So we got to play.
Biagio: There you go. I’m gonna leave it at that.
Joke: All right. Good night everybody.
Announcer: Good night. Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.
