How to Get Great Interviews for Documentaries and Reality TV Shows

Announcer: Welcome to Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.

Angry Man: Is this some kind of joke?

Confused Woman: Biagio-WHO???

Announcer: This episode….

Biagio: It is episode 33 and we are talking interviews. Learn how to get great interviews for reality TV shows and documentaries. The acronym Joke came up with that will save you every time. Why you should never let your interview subject off the hook until the very end of the interview. And what the monetary unit of several former Spanish colonies has to do with all of this.

Announcer: Music courtesy of Dave Pelman Music, davepelman.com

Biagio: Hey everybody, she is Joke.

Joke: He is Biagio.

Biagio: We are married and we make unscripted film and television and want to help you do the same hopefully by teaming up with us. Well, welcome to episode 33 and a return to having music in the opening. Sorry for being so lazy last time. I wasn’y really lazy, we were just really busy. But what I will say is that this episode, today’s episode is one a lot of you have personally requested. A lot of you have written and asked, “How do I do better interviews?”

So today is going to be about getting great interviews for reality TV and documentary series and you are very fortunate people because while I will admit to having done quite a few pretty darn good interviews over the years, nobody and I mean nobody, is better at writing an interview than my wife, the famous Joke Fincioen. Joke, you have got something special planned today, don’t you?

Joke: Well, I am not sure I can live up to that statement.

Biagio: She can surpass it.

Joke: No. We worked with a lot of great producers who do great interviews. I am not taking away anything from that. But over the course of our many, many years in this business, we have obviously done a ton of interviews. And we have a little acronym that we came up with that will give you the tips and is easy to remember but before we get to that, I think it is important to understand the kind of interviews we are talking about.

So in documentary, in unscripted, in reality interviews are obviously a big part of what we do but these are not your Matt Lauer Today Show, Good Morning America interviews necessarily. These are not hey you just finished a game necessarily sports interviews either.

These are character interviews, story interviews, things that will help you put together a better episode. And frankly, and this comes back to the acronym we came up with but interviews are the money for the kind of shows that we do.

Biagio: They really are. The interviews, I mean the most important part, not only of the show’s airing on television really, but of selling the shows to a network. Because it is all about your characters.

Joke: Imagine Duck Dynasty without interviews, you cannot. So much of the comedy comes and punctuation that those interviews do. Imagine Housewife-type shows without interviews. You cannot. So much of the drama and the intrigue and the tension is explained in those interviews.

Because those women may not necessarily say everything to each other’s face, what they are thinking, but they will say it in interview. And so it gives you, as an audience member, insight into what is happening. It gives you a little brief glimpse into the brains and the character’s point of view of what is happening around them.

Biagio: Yes and there is a school of thought that will say hey if your show is really good, you do not need interviews, I do not subscribe to that. Listen, we have done shows that have a lot of interviews. We have done shows that have less interviews. The fact to the matter is audiences today expect interviews. How you use those interviews can make a difference between a great show and a show that feels like it was made by a bunch of hacks. But interviews are integral to what we do.

Joke: And for example, our True Life episode Secrets, Lies, and Sex, has great interviews and those are, we have great verite as well, it is a documentary but those interviews give you the additional layers to a scene that is not there present in verite because it is happening in the inner life of your characters. So the interviews give you a chance to have your audience experience some of that inner life which is why they are so amazing and why they are very, very important. A good interview can make or break a show.

Biagio: Yes so I think we are probably going to do a few more episodes on interviews because it is such a broad topic. But today I want to give you sort of a full-proof checklist that I think is already going to help you take your interviews to completely new level and that is a checklist that has been created and put into practice by none other than my wife, Joke Fincioen.

Joke: Well but to be fair, this acronym did not come to me until this weekend. We were just trying to figure out how what we normally do can be broken down in steps so that we can share that with you. So bear with us but our acronym because interviews are so money is…

Biagio: Peso.

Joke: Peso!

Biagio: Peso.

Joke: So that is easy to remember right.

Biagio: Peso. That is P-E-S-O.

Joke: P-E-S-O. It is all about the money, the money, the money. It is all about the peso, the peso, the peso because your interviews are such money. Alright, anyway, hopefully that will help you remember it. If us making a fool of ourselves just doing that, we will help you remember it then score for us.

Biagio: I will gladly act like an idiot if it helps you get better interviews. So let us go ahead and start with peso. First letter, P.

Joke: P. And P stands for prepare. Okay, now there is various different ways to prepare for various different interviews. The point is, you always have to prepare. So whether that is doing a ton of pre-interviews with people or having kept track of the conversations you have had with characters or knowing what the story is going to be or things that had happened, scenes that you need them to talk about in documentaries, specific events that had happened that you want their commentary on, their feelings on, their thoughts on, preparation is key.

But I remember clearly doing interviews on Caesars 24/7 where this young fighter just won the world championship for the first time and he is being dragged around from here and there. He is doing a press conferences. Those are not the kind of questions you want to find out and you are able to convince him to get a camera crew in his hotel room as the night winds down and so you have to prepare as you are walking up the elevator, as you are getting ready to go shoot this of what kind of questions you want to be asking.

What kind of sound bites are you really going for? Are we going for emotions like what you are feeling right now, what is next? How does this compare? Are we asking for specific like what happened, tell me, explain to me why we are here where we are? You have to really know before you start an interview what is the point of your interview? What are you trying to get out of this? So that is why you have to prepare.

Biagio: Yes and you would be surprised how many aimless, aimless interviews we see and I think it is because people think, “Oh, it is reality, it is documentary,” we’re in the moment I would just sit down and we will just ask whatever comes on top of my head. That is never going to get you anywhere quickly and unfortunately I see a ton of interviews that feel exactly like that. So remember letter P of peso, prepare.

Okay moving on, letter number two E. And E is for…

Joke: Engage. E stands for engage and this is a mistake we see in a lot of interviews. You have to engage with your subject. Whoever you are interviewing, you have to converse. You have to listen. You have to connect. You have to engage them.

Even though you are not on camera, and your voice will most likely not be on camera, they need someone to connect with. Only really, really seasoned on camera people can fake that or can make that connection mentally with an inanimate object that is a camera. But most real people do not have that ability and so they rely on you, the interviewer, to get them there.

And so for them to look engaging on camera for an audience to feel like that cast member or that personality is engaging with them, the person you are interviewing needs someone to engage with. And that has to be you. It is so important to, while you are prepared to be in the moment. To listen. Sometimes they will say something and it will be an entire follow-up.

For example, when we were shooting Caesars 24/7 we were called in a rush to the high limits slots area because someone had just hit a million dollar jackpot and our field director at the time just did one of these on-the-cuff interviews and prepared and was asking the questions but he was not fully listening. And we were standing off to the side and I heard him say something like, I forgot exactly what it was anymore, but it was something to the effect of “Yes this really means a lot to me especially with everything that I have going on,” and then he just moved on.

And so there is just something really slight but we had our field director follow-up and say ask him what is going on in his life and why is this so special, what is happening in your life that this now is extra special. I mean, winning a million dollars in the slot machine seems already special enough but what else is going on?

Biagio: Yes, what made him say that?

Joke: What made him say that and next thing you know, we find out this man is terminally ill, dying of cancer, maybe has a year to live. And this has been something that he had actually been playing for his whole life. And so this was like an ultimate check off the bucket list.

And so a story that could have just been, oh here is a rich older man winning a million dollar jackpot. Now became oh here is a story of a terminally ill older man winning the million dollar jackpot. It is so important to listen and to engage and this is also the part where you want tears in interview then you better be listening and engaging and connecting. Because if you are a wall, your characters will be a wall. People cry and they are vulnerable and they open up because they are receiving something in return.

Again, it is so important to get your interviews to that next level. That you absolutely 100% engage. So while you are going through your prepared checklist in your mind, you have to still be present and connect to the people that you are talking to.

Biagio: Yes it is important to have that checklist but if listening to a transcript of your interview sounds like you are going through a checklist, you have failed miserably. Miserably. It should feel like a conversation, not like you reading off a series of bullet point questions and checking them off the list as you get an answer. Good interviewers will follow up on the littlest clues that you get from the people that you’re interviewing and those answers are the ones that make all the difference.

Joke: And do not be afraid to follow up on stuff because sometimes it does not lead to anything. It is like, “Oh it means a lot to me especially with what is going on with me right now.” “Oh what is going on with you right now?” “Oh I kind of woke up sick today.” Well then okay, that did not lead anywhere but at least you tried, right? It could be I am terminally ill or I woke up with a sniffles, you know what I am saying?

You have to listen and sometimes it does not lead anywhere and that is okay but sometimes it leads you to gold and it is that gold stuff that you cannot prepare for that you have to be present for to catch it when it is there.

Biagio: Okay moving on to letter number three in our acronym peso, letter number three S.

Joke: And the S stands for summarize. Summarize or sound bite and what we mean by that is a lot of times regular people will tell you these amazing things but it will be in paragraphs that you have engaged with and connected with and listened to, but it does not necessarily always edit well. And so as you are listening and as you are doing these things, make notes to yourself. And what you help them do is put their own words in a more digestible sound bite, right?

If someone is like I am going to tell the story about how one time in college I did this and oh my god, that guy was crazy and then we went over there and blah, blah, blah and it all comes down to this crazy night. It is really that your job as an interviewer to go like “Wow, that was amazing. Is there any way for you to kind of put it in a more succinct way?” For example, my craziest night ever was this night in college where I was blanked, and therefore now you have your sound bite.

You have summarized their own words but it will make it so much easier for you in editing and it will also help them feel like you are taking care of them. Because they do not want to sound like rambling idiots either. It is very important as you are listening to keep track of things that will need to be summarized because they are not already in kind of digestible sound bite form.

Biagio: Yes and speaking as the resident editor here I can tell you that really bad shows and interviews that feel really lame tend to rely almost exclusively on those summarized bites. That is not really why you are getting them. The very, very best, the most artful interviews to me are the ones that make excellent use of both the conversational part of the interview and the sound bites.

Because there is a balance there and if all you are putting in your show are sound bites, people are going to sound like robots. And you are going to miss out on the character and the flare and the twang and the little things that they bring in to the interview as a person.

For me, it is always, if I be so bold to use these words a delicate ballet, a choreography if you will of mixing together the conversation along with the sound bites and when you get the balance just right, honest to god, those characters leap off the screen.

Okay that brings us to the fourth letter in our acronym peso, letter number four, O.

Joke: And O stands for onceover. Give the whole thing a onceover before you are done, before you break the situation, send your camera guy off, de-mic your character, or whatever. Give everything a little onceover. Go over your checklist and you can say that to the subject and be like, “Hey I think this was great, just bear with me for a minute while I just make sure we got everything while you are sitting here.”

And that is when you can break that connection and really look down and figure out okay do you need to pick anything up, did you feel like they got that summarized bite right or not? Is it worth it? Do you even feel like we are going to need it, just really go over your notes and go over your prep list and just give it all a onceover and go alright, before you break, you have to build in that little time for yourself that you check your own work.

Because if you have done things correctly, you have been prepared mentally, you have been going through it, you have been engaging with your subject and so you may have missed something and that is fine, even when you are doing your summarizing for some sound bites you may have missed something and again, that is completely normal. That is why there is the last step which is the onceover. To just make sure before everybody breaks down the setup, that you have what you need.

Biagio: This is important for both of you too because now that you have gotten until the end of the interview, you finally have the person you are interviewing, they are in a mode, they are in a mindset, these people also they usually they want to do a good job. They are nervous. They are not used to being on cameras especially early on in shows.

So now you have got them at a point where they kind of want to get to the end of the interview, right? They are going to be excited when you say great job and they can get up and walk away. Well, if you prematurely say great job and everyone is supposed to breakdown and they get up and walk away, and they have this great release and the adrenaline rushes over and now you need to get them back to where they were.

It is so much harder to do that is why you make sure you keep them right where they are, right where they are. You can let them know we are almost done but you do not want to let them feel like they are off the hook because their energy will crash. I have seen it happen many times early on in our career. And you do not want to let people off the hook too soon. Keep them on the hook all the way to the very end. It is a tool for you. It is a tool for them.

Joke: And you do it by saying “Let me make sure I got everything that I needed.” You know what I mean? So that it is not on them. They did not do anything wrong, blah, blah, blah. You are just checking yourself to help them, to help everybody. So that is what it really comes down to it.

So, it is PESO. Prepare, engage, summarize, and give it a onceover. And if you are freaked out at this point, that is good. Because if you are paying attention, yes you will need to be functioning on multiple levels to do a good interview. You will need to have your brain kind of going through a checklist, but at the same time you will need to be present and engage and connect to people.

You will need a pen and a piece of paper and probably jot down something and then forget about it so that you will look at that again during your onceover to see what was it. Because you are going to be in a conversation and you cannot just stop that to go pick something up necessarily in the middle of it and break the flow especially if they are in an emotional moment.

It is important that you, as the interviewer, as the producer understand that you will have to work on multiple levels to get a great interview. And so yes, that is why it takes skill. That is why when you start in this business, you do not just get to be the person doing the interview, so you have to watch a lot of interviews. You have to practice the interviews before you get good at it.

Biagio: There you go people. Peso. Use that peso to make your interviews worth every dollar that the network is spending on them or that you are spending yourself to try and sell the show and listen, I do mean this and not just because she is my wife, Joke is one of the best interviewers I have ever seen.

And so while I happily do many of the interviews on our shows, listen when the game is on the line I want Joke to have the ball. You can do a lot worse than taking her advice and thanks honey for coming up with the peso acronym. I think it was really helpful.

Joke: Thank you for pushing me all weekend to come up with it.

Biagio: I am like “you are the best interviewer I know, you are going to do this Jokey.” Alright everybody, hey listen I hope this helps with your interviews. Until next time. You can find the show notes for this episode producingunscripted.com/033 because it was episode 33 and please be sure to check this out on YouTube, that is youtube.com/jokeandbiagio where you can see our first eight episodes all turned into videos with clickable table of contents and those first eight episodes will really get you up the speed on everything you ever wanted to know about pitching and selling a reality TV show especially if you want to team up with us.

So that is it for this time, see you guys in two weeks, thanks again and thank you, Joke.

Joke: Thank you, honey and thank you all for listening. I hope now your interviewing will be worth the money.

Biagio: Yes, worth the pesos.

Joke: Worth the pesos. See you later.

Biagio: Bye.

Announcer: Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.